[thommyjo]

I remember younger me lurking on here years ago really looking forward to earlier proposals on this site, it's hard to be anything but very disappointed with the current rendition. Would like to see it not move forward at all honestly. What could have been... Does anyone have the earlier renders of the two tower proposal before these?View attachment 730343View attachment 730344

I don’t think the 1000 people is worth it for the quality of slum they are building. We need better.

 

[inclusion]

I don’t think the 1000 people is worth it for the quality of slum they are building. We need better.

The quality won’t be that bad; the design could be better. It’s adequate for the type of housing it will offer. Easy to dwell on the what ifs - this will still be a net benefit to downtown and the area. Arguing otherwise just means you care about looks more than actually bringing people into the core.

 

[David A]

The quality won’t be that bad; the design could be better. It’s adequate for the type of housing it will offer. Easy to dwell on the what ifs - this will still be a net benefit to downtown and the area. Arguing otherwise just means you care about looks more than actually bringing people into the core.

I suppose it could also be argued the ugly public library is a net benefit to downtown. Well between government and the private sector, we seem to be consistent with the ugly on the outside nice on the inside approach, so much so it could probably be called the Edmonton approach. Then we wonder why we have the negative image we do, compared to other cities our size.

We really don't need more crap.

 

[oilcity98]

There need to be higher standards. What world class city would allow that to become of a historic building in its core? The mentality definitely should not be to support building anything and everything as long as it nets more units, and if there was better regulation it would force developers to collectively up the bar instead of the race to the bottom in this city.
New builds will be around for generations. Yeah there are a lot of empty lots to fill in the core and maybe the post 2020 development has been slower in that region of the city for a lot of reasons but the answer is not to allow cheap garbage to go up just to see more development happen right now. Most cities wouldn't have that either. Do you think this is something we would see proposed today in downtown Toronto? Montreal? Vancouver? Calgary? Victoria? We have to stop accepting this or DT will not develop to its potential. Even if it means a transitory period of a few less projects.
We have seen developers do amazing things here and raise the bar, but the city needs to have a standard especially in the core.

 

[inclusion]

There need to be higher standards. What world class city would allow that to become of a historic building in its core? The mentality definitely should not be to support building anything and everything as long as it nets more units, and if there was better regulation it would force developers to collectively up the bar instead of the race to the bottom in this city.
New builds will be around for generations. Yeah there are a lot of empty lots to fill in the core and maybe the post 2020 development has been slower in that region of the city for a lot of reasons but the answer is not to allow cheap garbage to go up just to see more development happen right now. Most cities wouldn't have that either. Do you think this is something we would see proposed today in downtown Toronto? Montreal? Vancouver? Calgary? Victoria? We have to stop accepting this or DT will not develop to its potential. Even if it means a transitory period of a few less projects.
We have seen developers do amazing things here and raise the bar, but the city needs to have a standard especially in the core.

The city does have design standards via EDC. If you don’t like the standards that exist, write your councillor or run for council yourself and advocate change. Yelling in an echo chamber on skyrise isn’t going to move the needle.

 

[Markyeg]

It just sets a really bad precedent. If this gets built in its current incarnation, it signals to other builders what they can get away with on future projects.

 

[The_Cat]

I can’t understand it. With Wihkwentowin/Oliver building nicer buildings, why does downtown settle for less?

 

[northlands]

Are there grant dollars allocated to this project?

 

[inclusion]

I understand the sentiment, and I agree in the end that providing bunch of new student housing Downtown (that is relatively affordable, hopefully) is a net positive. With that said, the design of this project is so utterly devoid of taste, style and class and is not acceptable for a prominent Downtown area. I also agree that Edmonton does need to up its standards at this point, however that will be an uphill battle given a) Policy direction which prioritizes quantity over quality of new housing (for good reasons, but still) and b) Edmonton's relatively cheap real estate market compounding with high construction costs and an isolated city location to prevent higher-quality architecture from penciling out for projects.

I wish there was a justifiable way for the City's development planners to actually enforce some basic good architectural design features for key locations in the city, e.g. window coverage, exterior colour palette, massing, street interaction and permeability.

It just sets a really bad precedent. If this gets built in its current incarnation, it signals to other builders what they can get away with on future projects.

No offence, but the precedent for "crap" in Edmonton was set decades ago. As for whether it's acceptable for a downtown, I'd argue that our countless blocks of unpaved parking lots aren't acceptable for a downtown area, yet here we are. Compared to some of the Regency stuff, this really isn't that terrible. I understand people have a problem with small windows, but it is standard on a lot of student housing across the country because of the size of units. People defend Mercury Block and the Cobalt here like they are architectural marvels, when really they are just bland boxes that have brought additional residents to the area where they were built. I'm not saying these are the peak of design; they are not, but the hypocritical irony around here is astounding. You have certain individuals bashing Westrich in one thread and praising similar developers in another thread. Compared with the other 6 floor projects being proposed elsewhere, the material used in this development is comparable.

 

[David A]

I understand the sentiment, and I agree in the end that providing bunch of new student housing Downtown (that is relatively affordable, hopefully) is a net positive. With that said, the design of this project is so utterly devoid of taste, style and class and is not acceptable for a prominent Downtown area. I also agree that Edmonton does need to up its standards at this point, however that will be an uphill battle given a) Policy direction which prioritizes quantity over quality of new housing (for good reasons, but still) and b) Edmonton's relatively cheap real estate market compounding with high construction costs and an isolated city location to prevent higher-quality architecture from penciling out for projects.

I wish there was a justifiable way for the City's development planners to actually enforce some basic good architectural design features for key locations in the city, e.g. window coverage, exterior colour palette, massing, street interaction and permeability.

I realize it is easier to make excuses, but our city needs to stop with the mentality of accepting whatever is presented, like helpless little frightened children and stand up for ourselves, particularly when the crap is egregious.

If we don't we will just get more crap and it will be what we deserve.

 

[archited]

Again, all of the "forgivers" on this very site excuse the moves on the basis of "well at least there will be fewer surface parking stalls" or "the designs are not that bad", or "the economy doesn't currently allow for downtown-calibre design". I am going to start handing out BS awards (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science).

 

[MakeYEGGreatAgain]

Again, all of the "forgivers" on this very site excuse the moves on the basis of "well at least there will be fewer surface parking stalls" or "the designs are not that bad", or "the economy doesn't currently allow for downtown-calibre design". I am going to start handing out BS awards (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science).

Where are those investors that are willing to build downtown calibre design?

 

[David A]

Where are those investors that are willing to build downtown calibre design?

Just a couple blocks away

 

[Barnaby]

Again, all of the "forgivers" on this very site excuse the moves on the basis of "well at least there will be fewer surface parking stalls" or "the designs are not that bad", or "the economy doesn't currently allow for downtown-calibre design". I am going to start handing out BS awards (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science).

1,000 more people with eyes on the street, supporting the local grocery stores, visiting the park, checking out the galleries, riding the train, enjoying restaurants, walking to/from places instead of driving.

The architecture is crap, but the positive effects from this project are not trivial to those actually living in the area.

While I understand your perspective, I can't help but blame the current state of downtown on the "greatest" generation's need to destroy, rather than build cities. Tegler, Carnegie, Corona Hotel, CNR Station, Empire Theatre, Empire Block, The ERR. I could keep going.

It's easy to pick apart projects from behind a screen, but many of us have to live with the terrible consequences of urban renewal. I'm sick of looking at cracked asphalt and gravel lots.

 

[Glenco]

1,000 more people with eyes on the street, supporting the local grocery stores, visiting the park, checking out the galleries, riding the train, enjoying restaurants, walking to/from places instead of driving.

The architecture is crap, but the positive effects from this project are not trivial to those actually living in the area.

While I understand your perspective, I can't help but blame the current state of downtown on the "greatest" generation's need to destroy, rather than build cities. Tegler, Carnegie, Corona Hotel, CNR Station, Empire Theatre, Empire Block, The ERR. I could keep going.

It's easy to pick apart projects from behind a screen, but many of us have to live with the terrible consequences of urban renewal. I'm sick of looking at cracked asphalt and gravel lots.

Gentrification starts with artists and students then the young professionals. We have to start somewhere but this particular development is in my opinion beyond the pale.