What do you think of this project?

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For street front retail to work, you need to be able to “see” where you’re going and deem it worth walking to. It doesn’t matter whether you’re looking 30 feet or 150 feet, if you can’t see something you want to walk to, you won’t.

Station Park’s biggest failing is the orientation of its containers in that the storefronts face a small internal courtyard with poor to nonexistent sight lines from the intersection it needs to entice people to cross (like a mall, it presents a blank face and not an animated one).

People won’t take a risk on crossing a street only to find there’s nothing there for them to see or do when they get there. And simply providing an elevated rather than an at grade crossing won’t change that.
 
TAS said:
One thing Whyte Ave seems to be missing are banks. Maybe they can afford the lease rates.
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Bring back the banks!?

Well there are not as many as there used to be, but still has TD at 109 Street, RBC across the street, ATB a couple blocks south on 104 St (maybe close enough to count?) and CIBC at 99 Street.
 
Sometimes these lines are invisible, sometimes there’s real physical barriers, sometimes a bit of both.

103ave from 105-109st is one of those imo. Hence why good goods failed. No clear barrier, but just mentally not in the “map” of most people as they walk DT.

Gateway is arguably a very real barrier.

106-108ave of 124st is a good example of “breaking” a real barrier and expanding people’s mental maps. The park on 108ave/market draws people north over 107ave. Numerous events like farmers markets and All is Bright where the entire stretch is open (roads closed) and connected help to get people to experience the whole stretch.

Not sure how we do it with gateway, arguably this project is a part of the solution. But I think it’s a real mental map for many. Gateway is the “end” of the whyte nightlife.

I wonder if apartments above this project would have been wise. More 81ave development. Redevelop the parking lots north of station park.
 
thommyjo said:
Not sure how we do it with gateway, arguably this project is a part of the solution. But I think it’s a real mental map for many. Gateway is the “end” of the whyte nightlife.

I wonder if apartments above this project would have been wise. More 81ave development. Redevelop the parking lots north of station park.
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Transform that used car lot north of Whyte Ave into a mid-rise development (similar to the Hat nearby), then use the ground level CRUs to expand the Whyte Ave nightlife with a pub and live music venue. The public washroom and the streetcar terminal can remain as-is.
 
I think one of the best solutions -- and it wouldn't be inexpensive but it would be transformational -- would be to depress Gateway starting from the 80th avenue intersection north and under Sask. drive with a new (less of a hairpin) access to the 105th Street bridge (in fact I would abandon the existing connector at QE Park Rd. altogether). With the road depressed the opportunity would present itself for branched-off UG parking along the way thereby reducing auto presence in large part. Pedestrian bridges could criss-cross the now-depressed roadway at points like "End of Steel Park", "Yardbird Suite", "OS Farmers' Market", "Strathcona Hotel", "Station Park" and the "Historic Railway Station". a very large UG parking structure could be accessed from the depressed roadway between 83rd and 85th Avenue on the east side of Gateway (perhaps tied into a mixed use development atop the parkade). Access ramps from the depressed roadway need only be provided at Sask. Drive. This would surely seam Old Strathcona into a much stronger pedestrian realm and allow for a significant eastward expansion of retail and hospitality.
 
archited said:
I think one of the best solutions -- and it wouldn't be inexpensive but it would be transformational -- would be to depress Gateway starting from the 80th avenue intersection north and under Sask. drive with a new (less of a hairpin) access to the 105th Street bridge (in fact I would abandon the existing connector at QE Park Rd. altogether). With the road depressed the opportunity would present itself for branched-off UG parking along the way thereby reducing auto presence in large part. Pedestrian bridges could criss-cross the now-depressed roadway at points like "End of Steel Park", "Yardbird Suite", "OS Farmers' Market", "Strathcona Hotel", "Station Park" and the "Historic Railway Station". a very large UG parking structure could be accessed from the depressed roadway between 83rd and 85th Avenue on the east side of Gateway (perhaps tied into a mixed use development atop the parkade). Access ramps from the depressed roadway need only be provided at Sask. Drive. This would surely seam Old Strathcona into a much stronger pedestrian realm and allow for a significant eastward expansion of retail and hospitality.
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That is not a project that I would support. Gateway Boulevard north from 82nd Avenue is a nice stretch of road and if the park space on its east side is developed into park space as planed, it will become a very attractive area for development without hoping that economic activity in the area would improve by excavating it. The High Level bridge is nearing the end of its lifespan and replacing it would be a more impactful transformation project to the City's development than having Gateway Boulevard and Walterdale as the City's primary artery into downtown from the south. 109 Street is a much better north-south corridor as its more direct for most travel - particularly and presumably if two way traffic was restored. It wouldn't be a big stretch to suggest that the Province would pick up the tab for landscaping the west side of the legislative grounds to compliment a new bridge. So if the goal is to make the Gateway Boulevard and Whyte Avenue intersection - and Whyte Avenue for that matter - more walkable which I do support, then shift the traffic flow over to 109 Street by replacing the High Level bridge with a modern bridge that accommodates traffic flow better than the current arrangement.
 
Don't see why tax payers should shell out multi-millions to increase foot traffic to a cluster of small businesses.. not one penny. let the businesses themselves create the draw. Think this convo has gone to cloud cuckoo land.
 
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buildings said:
Don't see why tax payers should shell out multi-millions to increase foot traffic to a cluster of small businesses.. not one penny. let the businesses themselves create the draw. Think this convo has gone to cloud cuckoo cuckoo land.
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I do feel bad that a lot has been invested in here, in something actually nice and it has not done better so far. I agree the heavy traffic on the two roads is a part of the problem.

However, this traffic was there before it was built, so the people who developed it went into it with their eyes wide open. We can't make expensive or big changes just to try help out a few businesses with a challenging location.
 
I don’t think the road has much to do about it. Just wrong project for wrong location. Whyte has endless choices for different style and size of retail. This was too much too fast for the area. I never liked this one from the start. They were 5 years late on a concept I never really even enjoyed in other cities…They tried to build a little shopping centre in the only proper pedestrian friendly street in Edmonton. Look how whyte east of gateway is slowly filling in and becoming “cool”. People want the walking the street and exploring experience here.
 
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If I were Beljan I’d be doing all I could to advocate for getting 80th Avenue connected. (Not sure the railway’s position on things at the moment.)

Proposed habitat greenway in the Scona District Plan. ^

I think the connection could greatly increase the amount of foot traffic and would be great for businesses both in the West Ritchie and Queen Alexandra (also for the increasing number of people living in the area making it easier to reach places on foot.)

I ran down 81st Ave this morning and I think the stretch between 105th and Gatway will be quite nice once the renewal and the first phase of The Hat is done. The single storey commercial building from the Hat development is looking good and it looks like they will be making improvements to the streetscape too. (Will try to get some pictures.)

Would be great to see better connectivity in the area and the area south of Whyte become more dense, have more business, be more walkable and generally more people friendly.
 
There’s a couple of developments adjacent to Station Park that might see it benefit from some more proximal foot traffic in the somewhat distant future: Cook County’s expansion, street improvements west on 80th ave, Old Strathcona’s public realm strategy which will turn the area just north of Whyte into a “greenway” park/path. Better pedestrian connections south, near 81/80th ave, across gateway boulevard might help integrate the area a little more too. Especially for those poor retail spaces along gateway, all seemingly up for lease after one year.

Even then, I kinda think they’ve missed the mark with the Epic food hall concept… Been there a couple times now and I’m failing to see the vision, beyond maybe a corporate event space (which I think they’ve now mostly pivoted to). I remember Station Park originally being touted as an opportunity for new, emerging venders to break into the scene by offering relatively cheap “micro retail spaces”. And some of those spaces did actually work! DRTY Ice cream, a Filipino, small-batch ice cream store, which operates with usually one person in a 200sqft seacan, seemingly attracts more people than their marquee food hall!

I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t extend that thinking to Epic. Lease those spaces inside to new, interesting, emerging restauranteurs. Instead they opted for uniformly boring, generic food categories, brought to you by one chef…
 
I feel like the First Street Food Hall in Calgary is what could have been - every time I'm there, it is usually quite busy or at least steady, and there are some great food options, which I think are independent. It does have residential on top and a patio/park out back, though. The closest equivalent for us would probably be the Bountiful Farmers' Market, but getting there without driving can be dicey/unpleasant.
 
I've walked past this place a lot and thought about eating there, and I always end up feeling like there are better options. Don't get me wrong—I'm grateful that Beljan took a risk and built something—but it doesn't look very inviting, or in the spirit of what people want from Whyte. Words like "corporate" and "soulless" come to mind. Then again, I'm not really the target audience for a food hall; they seem best suited to a lunch/happy hour crowd for nearby office workers.
 
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