What do you think of this project?

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yeggator said:
After COVID, they were victims of the same real estate speculation that plagued the Toronto condo market, whereas we weren’t. I remember driving past a new condo by Canada Olympic Park a couple weeks ago and remarked at how empty it appeared based on most of the balconies having been untouched.
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Is the 15-20% higher rental rates all that’s needed for the boom? @IanO if our average rents jump $300, this tower, ice towers, etc are going sky high again?
 
^ I doubt that. The biggest market for concrete in Edmonton presently is the LRT Valley Line West and related construction. Once that begins to subside then the builder-excuse will fade with it as the price begins to fall. The "problem" currently is that there is high demand for apartment occupancies and like many of the past Edmonton booms, there is a rush to build as cheap as possible to collect them valuable dollars. If there was a real concern for quality, developers would at least be trying to build something aesthetically sustainable instead of going for the mass ugly. "Quick Buck Syndrome" and a race to the bottom are simply coinciding one with the other.
 
archited said:
^ I doubt that. The biggest market for concrete in Edmonton presently is the LRT Valley Line West and related construction. Once that begins to subside then the builder-excuse will fade with it as the price begins to fall. The "problem" currently is that there is high demand for apartment occupancies and like many of the past Edmonton booms, there is a rush to build as cheap as possible to collect them valuable dollars. If there was a real concern for quality, developers would at least be trying to build something aesthetically sustainable instead of going for the mass ugly. "Quick Buck Syndrome" and a race to the bottom are simply coinciding one with the other.
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Edmonton is the embodiment of (I'm an engineer not a architect) value engineering... From buildings to infrastructure.
 
Address: 10004 - 112 STREET NW
Description: The City has received a rezoning application from Green Space Alliance (GSA) Consulting Inc. The current zone is the Direct Control Zone (DC2.1094) and the proposed zone is the Mixed Use Zone (MU h40.0 f7.0) which would allow: A range of uses that support housing, commerce, and employment opportunities. A maximum height of 40.0 m (approx. 11 storeys). A Floor Area Ratio of 7.0. In the Central District Plan, the site is located within the Centre City Node.

It’s being zoned to allow for more that 6 stories.

Will see what is proposed.

Not sure if anyone on here wants to give us any hints. 😉
 
thommyjo said:
Can anyone help me understand how Calgary got multiple huge towers started the last few years and yet their rents are declining and not much higher than ours currently, yet we can’t get anything beyond stick frame cheapos?

We need Truman up here.
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I talked about this in another thread so it might be somewhat redundant, but the short answer is that it's a simple case of dollars and cents. Concrete highrises in Edmonton are a challenge financially.

Calgary's rents might have been declining at the time of your post, I don't know Calgary's rates, but developers, especially the larger institutional developers, and REITs don't care about rent declines in a particular quarter, etc.. they are looking at 20 years out, and they look at the rental market for the past 20 years.
Calgary's highrise rental market consistently fetches around 15-25% more than Edmonton's high rise market and has for the past 30 years. Developers are betting it will be that way for the next 20. It's also not so much about the extra rental revenue, it's that a Calgary building will likely be worth 15-25% more in 20 years.

It's not a case of developers having anything personal against Edmonton, only a case of people running numbers through a calculator. 47 high-rises have been built, or are u/c in Calgary over the past 4 years, and most of them have been built by out of town developers. Vancouver developers, like Bucci, Amble, Bossa, Gracorp, Cressey. Others like Cadillac Fairview, Slokker, Hines, Western Securities, GWL. Even some from Edmonton. One Properties has built a few towers in Calgary recently, and recently broke ground on another. Cantiro, which I believe is an Edmonton based developer is breaking ground on a tower first week of May. Calgary based Truman is building 5 or 6 high-rises, and proposing more but it's almost all Ontario money.
 
Jhawk said:
I talked about this in another thread so it might be somewhat redundant, but the short answer is that it's a simple case of dollars and cents. Concrete highrises in Edmonton are a challenge financially.

Calgary's rents might have been declining at the time of your post, I don't know Calgary's rates, but developers, especially the larger institutional developers, and REITs don't care about rent declines in a particular quarter, etc.. they are looking at 20 years out, and they look at the rental market for the past 20 years.
Calgary's highrise rental market consistently fetches around 15-25% more than Edmonton's high rise market and has for the past 30 years. Developers are betting it will be that way for the next 20. It's also not so much about the extra rental revenue, it's that a Calgary building will likely be worth 15-25% more in 20 years.

It's not a case of developers having anything personal against Edmonton, only a case of people running numbers through a calculator. 47 high-rises have been built, or are u/c in Calgary over the past 4 years, and most of them have been built by out of town developers. Vancouver developers, like Bucci, Amble, Bossa, Gracorp, Cressey. Others like Cadillac Fairview, Slokker, Hines, Western Securities, GWL. Even some from Edmonton. One Properties has built a few towers in Calgary recently, and recently broke ground on another. Cantiro, which I believe is an Edmonton based developer is breaking ground on a tower first week of May. Calgary based Truman is building 5 or 6 high-rises, and proposing more but it's almost all Ontario money.
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Yes, higher rents likely do attract more construction, although I would be cautious about predicting current trends 20 years in the future. Interestingly, migration to Edmonton has been quite strong too, so it is not just that a lot more people going to Calgary.

If anything, fundamentally it is probably the considerably higher cost of housing in Calgary that is leading to more demand there for high rise rentals and condos, which then leads to higher rents and condo prices. However, as can be seen in the GTA and GVA, prices can only go so high and there is only so much people can or will bear. With recent declines it looks like Calgary may have reached its maximum also, so perhaps those 20 year projections should take that into account too.
 
Edmonton is growing. Just not enough jobs downtown to entice more people to live in new highrise towers.

High earners in Edmonton working in the energy sector are the blue collar type vs those in Calgary who want to be close to their office buildings. Just a different set of demographics. Someone wanting to spend money on a big truck vs someone wanting to spend more money on a condo/apartment to walk to their office.

For 30 years, Edmonton has been bleeding corporate jobs and has been struggling to attract or keep those jobs. Think of Telus as an example.
 
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