What do you think of this project?

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TAS said:
Ice District/OEG folks abandoning the third tower didn't help any of the current and future businesses in area thrive.
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What a misinformed comment. OEG didn't 'abandon' anything. As a private sector developer, they obviously ran the numbers and the return on investment wasn't there.

There seems to be a lot of misdirected anger at why developers are not building downtown. The question should be WHY no one is building DT.

Here's a hint: despite all the armchair cheer leading here, the DT generally sucks, is seen as unsafe, not accessible. And the irony, to see the push back on this same forum on the idea of back to work at the office in the DT.

Oy.
 
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TAS said:
Not my experience and I'm there most everyday. Much busier than a year ago.

I would be more concerned about the Safeway on west Jasper Ave closing before this does.
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What concerns you about the operation of the 122 st. Safeway store? I live on Jasper, a few blocks east of it and have shopped there 2-3 time a week since I moved back to the city two years ago.

The 122 st store is half the size of the Safeway 'barns' in Capilano and Oliver - and I get in and out in half the time. The store is open every night (except Christmas Day) till 11pm, and (according to the staff) is the only Edmonton Safeway store open on all other statutory holidays - the store is a gem - I've never found it crowed but there is always someone shopping there - last week I was went in at 10:30 and there were a dozen shoppers doing last minute stufff - like me... that's why it feels like a success to me. Plus they have the most convivial and friendly staff members..professionally but most affable.
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OLM said:
What concerns you about the operation of the 122 st. Safeway store? I live on Jasper, a few blocks east of it and have shopped there 2-3 time a week since I moved back to the city two years ago.

The 122 st store is half the size of the Safeway 'barns' in Capilano and Oliver - and I get in and out in half the time. The store is open every night (except Christmas Day) till 11pm, and (according to the staff) is the only Edmonton Safeway store open on all other statutory holidays - the store is a gem - I've never found it crowed but there is always someone shopping there - last week I was went in at 10:30 and there were a dozen shoppers doing last minute stufff - like me... that's why it feels like a success to me. Plus they have the most convivial and friendly staff members..professionally but most affable.
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I hope it is a success. I love that it is there. Just never had many people in there when I go, which I made a point of doing when I lived on 113st.
 
whattheheck said:
What a misinformed comment. OEG didn't 'abandon' anything. As a private sector developer, they obviously ran the numbers and the return on investment wasn't there.

There seems to be a lot of misdirected anger at why developers are not building downtown. The question should be WHY no one is building DT.

Here's a hint: despite all the armchair cheer leading here, the DT generally sucks, is seen as unsafe, not accessible. And the irony, to see the push back on this same forum on the idea of back to work at the office in the DT.

Oy.
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Well I choose to live, shop, entertain and work downtown and so I don't think it sucks or that it's unsafe or I wouldn't be doing it but I get many don't feel that way. Lots of work needed to improve, however.

I go by the fact OEG applied for city tax benefit by submitting a residential tower proposal and they were one of about 10 developers that were selected in the program - only two didnt go forward - the OEG one and Open Sky at 121st/102Ave, although I guess they did their excavation.

Shortly after OEG's residential tower development was approved for city incentive (tax break), a perhaps more lucrative opportunity presented itself when CWB was looking for new office space - which OEG pursued and were successful. But that need changed when National Bank bought CWB and so that plan ended and OEG's tax benefit for building a residential tower missed the deadline of construction starting.

Meanwhile, OEG obviously sees potential in DT as they are promising Ice District II residential - if they can secure some more public money, which they now have.

Builders are building downtown - the Switch, the Falcon, the Parks and the city just received about 12 or more proposals for its student incentive grant.
 
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Yes, lets try to avoid the negative hyperbole here. Several bigger buildings have been recently completed, some smaller projects and conversions are ongoing, various other projects are proposed that may happen soon.
 
Keep on cheer leading without acknowledging the actual problems that exist lol. Considering the city's population growth, the fact the DT has not captured a decent percentage of that is appalling. Keep on saying DT is great. The growth in the suburbs for both residential and office are proof you're all wrong,

Has there been any actual new private sector development above 10 floors that's started construction in the last four years? Any private sector large scale development that's NOT dependent on public dollars to build?!

Give your collective heads a shake. At least acknowledge there's a problem.
 
whattheheck said:
Keep on cheer leading without acknowledging the actual problems that exist lol. Considering the city's population growth, the fact the DT has not captured a decent percentage of that is appalling. Keep on saying DT is great. The growth in the suburbs for both residential and office are proof you're all wrong,

Has there been any actual new private sector development above 10 floors that's started construction in the last four years? Any private sector large scale development that's NOT dependent on public dollars to build?!

Give your collective heads a shake. At least acknowledge there's a problem.
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Parks started Feb 2022. Falcon was probably close to that too.

Planning is in the works for Parks Tower 2.

You can acknowledge downtown is up shit's creek from a crime perspective while still acknowledging there is development happening. Zymo just opened on Rice Howard, Le Petit in the past year. There are still good things happening DT despite the issues that plague CCM. There have also been residential conversions that are less flashy.

If you want to stay in the burbs and be a cheerleader there, no one is forcing you to go DT. You're being willfully ignorant and gas lighting everyone here to say nothing is happening downtown. The drug and crime problem isn't unique to Edmonton - it is widespread in North America. We're going to have to look to federal agencies to do more about controlling narcotics at the border and looking at legal changes. Until access to drugs is more difficult, the problem isn't likely going to get better. I'm not sure what you want anyone here to say.
 
Well I live in Millwoods but I work in either the downtown area or in the U of A area. The city market in ice District is very handy when I need to pick up lunch when I work at Rogers Place. I think it's just going to take a bit more time as more residential buildings get built in the core. Hopefully more will get built close to or in the ice District sooner than later.
 
whattheheck said:
What a misinformed comment. OEG didn't 'abandon' anything. As a private sector developer, they obviously ran the numbers and the return on investment wasn't there.

There seems to be a lot of misdirected anger at why developers are not building downtown. The question should be WHY no one is building DT.

Here's a hint: despite all the armchair cheer leading here, the DT generally sucks, is seen as unsafe, not accessible. And the irony, to see the push back on this same forum on the idea of back to work at the office in the DT.

Oy.
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Here’s the issue. When OEG designed this whole thing, part of the momentum behind the retail, especially massive tenants like city market, was that there would be thousands of new permanent residents literally connected to these buildings or within 2 blocks. OEG was entirely in control of the entire vision and promises made to retailers coming in.

Then, through a mix of bad luck with covid, a growing drug crisis, etc, things got harder. OEG also made some poor choices like the copy cat Toronto sky residences which had no chance of succeeding in a very different condo market. Then they scaled back other plans, delayed the 3rd tower, lost momentum, didn’t move on phase 2 at all, and boom, here we are.

Obviously there were lots of external factors. But I’d argue they hurt themselves a lot too. Mega projects can create momentum of their own, but when you stop 20% into them, you jeopardize the success of it all. City Market needed 3000 new residents in the area. And OEG barely gave them 500…
 
^ These are conditions that could happen anywhere (and do) -- we build on what we can but we don't start clutching our pearls in response to market conditions and "what ifs" Edmonton is not going to solve every problem confronting it "next year" -- look at positives on the horizon and be patient about getting there.
 
archited said:
^ These are conditions that could happen anywhere (and do) -- we build on what we can but we don't start clutching our pearls in response to market conditions and "what ifs" Edmonton is not going to solve every problem confronting it "next year" -- look at positives on the horizon and be patient about getting there.
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Yes, a big project that takes years to complete is based it on the conditions when you start it and what you expect to happen. Of course things can and do change, in this case way more dramatically than expected.

Here it wasn't just a negative economic change which is not so unusual, but also COVID which was very unexpected/unusual and which led to a huge change in people not going downtown for an extended period of time.

Yes, that is mostly over now. However, it is kind of like big disaster, an earthquake or a forest fire, you can't just quickly recover and the after effects are still being felt. It takes time to get things back on track.
 
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