I went to the Kingsway Bay a few days ago and it was actually quite nice for clothing and home goods.

Kingsway will always be the direct competitor for CCM and it might take another generation before enough people live downtown to make the economics work out for CCM. In an alternate universe, if Kingsway didn't exist, it would make CCM much more possible to attract and retain the top tier retailers (H&M, Lululemon, Bay).
 
I still look back at the H&M loss whereby it was going to do a two-storey store on the NWC of 101st/102ave, but when their corporate guy came to town, he asked why when Kingsway 'is Downtown'... which killed the opportunity.
 
^Right around the time Kingsway lost Zellers and Oxford was like, 'why go to ECC when we can do a larger store at Kingsway?' :(
 
Fortunately, City Centre is not still owned by the previous owner who did 60% of what it took to drive it into the ground. COVID did the rest.

Another example of a bad corporate citizen. Interestingly a company founded here that totally forgot its roots. There should be a corporate hall of shame for them.
 
Oxford tried, but I am not sure Edmonton responded very well in most regards and their business plan shifted to primary/A type markets as it grew and evolved. It wasn't just Edmonton that they divested, but multiple other 'smaller markets' and it's bene very clear from recent postings, that they are finding success in the Vancouver's, Toronto's, NYC's, London's and Singapore's of the world.
 
Yes, I realize they are more focused on larger markets now I don't think it was just Edmonton that fell off their radar.

I don't question their "success", I do question their values.
 
David A said:
Yes, I realize they are more focused on larger markets now I don't think it was just Edmonton that fell off their radar.

I don't question their "success", I do question their values.
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They value money (like all landlords) and went where they can find the most of it. Nothing wrong with that.
 
As was said, it is a question of values. Some people think there is such a thing as being a good corporate citizen and contributing to the community that contributed to their success.

Others don't give a hoot and only value what gets them a few extra bucks. I know which business I would prefer to deal with.
 
If anything, they should be credited with 'sticking it out' and 'working with what they have' in the way that they did.
 
Whatever. You can blame Edmontonians for not supporting CCM, but the fact is that their offering downtown has been subpar for ages. Why would someone drive downtown and pay for parking for a shopping experience that could easily be had at a second-tier suburban mall? The stores aren't unique, the infrastructure is tired and there seems to be very little to differentiate the experience from elsewhere.

I don't blame shoppers for choosing WEM or Kingsway because the experience is just better frankly. If CCM is going to become competitive, a large amount of money will need to be invested in refreshing the complex to make it more street facing and (hopefully) offer a more urban experience that cannot be replicated elsewhere.
 
It was actually doing quite well until around 2016 to 2018 , people actually did pay to drive downtown then for the shopping experience and there are number of people living nearby for which this remains the closest mall.

However the previous owners were not able to retain the stores that attracted people and did not seem very interested in getting new ones, so there is not much left now.

It would be good to make it more street facing, but the solution is not so much throwing a lot of money at it - the previous owners did that by shuffling things around, which was very disruptive and in the end only make things worse. It requires attention and an intelligent approach first and foremost, rather than cannibalizing one mall you own to benefit another, which was really the previous owners approach.
 
These days, the only amenity worth the trip in CCM is the Landmark Cinema, which I actually still go to regularly. (And even then, it's become apparent that Landmark is cheaping out on maintenance.) I used to like to pop into Winners from time to time, but the last few times I've gone, it's been a shadow of its former self with regards to stock and selection.
 
It was a series of unfortunate events...

1. lowest performing retail asset in Oxford's portfolio
2. little interest in reinvesting as they wanted to dispose of it
3. little (to nil) interest in buying it from others over many, many years and telling
4. Retail's continued shift to online or top tier (WEM, Southgate, SEC) locations
5. The very real impact of Kingsway
6. Increasing Downtown disorder and very significant costs to the tenant's and owner's bottom line.
 
There has been around a half a dozen various new things that have opened in this mall over the last six months or so, which I think continues to get lost in all the doom and gloom perpetrated here.

There was a series of unfortunate events, the biggest part of which were the previous owners and COVID in my opinion. There was a big hole and they are trying to recover and get out of it.

I don't expect them to be West Ed, but I do see things are improving and believe it will continue to do so. However, I realize it may take longer for negative perceptions to change.
 
David A said:
There has been around a half a dozen various new things that have opened in this mall over the last six months or so, which I think continues to get lost in all the doom and gloom perpetrated here.

There was a series of unfortunate events, the biggest part of which were the previous owners and COVID in my opinion. There was a big hole and they are trying to recover and get out of it.

I don't expect them to be West Ed, but I do see things are improving and believe it will continue to do so. However, I realize it may take longer for negative perceptions to change.
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Unfortunately, a lot of them are seasonal shops that close up after the holidays.
 
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