[Out of Towner]

A vision for downtown Edmonton doesn't currently exist. Offices? Retail? Residential? Hope isn't a strategy but even the economic development executive admits that it's all that the city administrators have. They hope that somebody with a good plan is going to revive the city center mall and by extension spring board the downtown to life before the hoodlums can gain more ground.

Somebody should tell the city administrators about the urban national park strategy that the federal government is preparing to advance and coordination an economic growth strategy to take full advantage of it. But just watch council approve another ad hoc project like Dub's river valley proposal without having a understanding of the bigger picture.

 

[kcantor]

^
Are you implying that not approving Dub’s project would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

Or that declaring one or both locations as an urban national park would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

 

[Gus Haynes]

I'm not even sure the UCP would permit a national urban park within Edmonton, as long as the federal government is led by the Liberals:

In introducing the third reading in the legislature, Lunty said "a hostile federal government and faceless bureaucrats in Ottawa, most of whom have never stepped foot in our beautiful province, do not have our best interests at heart as they attempt to dictate terms directly with our municipalities without the province having a voice on behalf of all Albertans."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/new-bill-allows-alberta-government-to-set-conditions-for-national-urban-park-decisions-1.7177597

 

[Out of Towner]

^
Are you implying that not approving Dub’s project would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

Or that declaring one or both locations as an urban national park would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

My point was that downtown's path forward is based largely on hope rather than an economic development strategy which, for example, would be impacted by a national urban park. Exactly how Dub's project would interact with a national urban parks plan is an unknown. It could have a positive economic impact but it's also possible that it could interfere with an urban park. Rather than a residential development, the land in question might best be suited for a hotel or some supporting buildings in a park development. The article that Gus just posted shows that an MLA that doesn't even represent Edmonton decided to introduce a Bill to engage the Province in an ideological fight with Ottawa. At some point though enough is enough and the Mayor and city council need to take a stand because decisions about the park need to be made as hope is not a strategy. It's been 3 years since the city expressed interest in the program and there's still no clarity on the direction that the city take regarding it. That's not helpful to anybody.

 

[IanO]

Do they have housing in Banff or Jasper? I thought that a boutique hotel might be included, but either way, perhaps short-term works there for visitors.

 

[David A]

A vision for downtown Edmonton doesn't currently exist. Offices? Retail? Residential? Hope isn't a strategy but even the economic development executive admits that it's all that the city administrators have. They hope that somebody with a good plan is going to revive the city center mall and by extension spring board the downtown to life before the hoodlums can gain more ground.

Somebody should tell the city administrators about the urban national park strategy that the federal government is preparing to advance and coordination an economic growth strategy to take full advantage of it. But just watch council approve another ad hoc project like Dub's river valley proposal without having a understanding of the bigger picture.

TINA - nothing is happening with the mall because there is no alternative in this area. There is no strong demand for office, retail or residential in this particular area now. The alternatives that keep on getting presented are based on hope, not strategy or vision and that is why they don't happen. If there was stronger demand in the area, then the long empty lot to the south of the mall (the former BMO/Tegler buildings) would have been developed by now.

Any significant change to the mall would require a lot of work, money and effort, so unless or until there is a clear alternative that works financially, they will not happen.

The current city council and administration has little interest in the downtown economy beyond responding/dealing with problems and even less interest in business or economic development beyond the obvious and easy mostly suburban, industrial projects.

 

[cmd uw]

TINA - nothing is happening with the mall because there is no alternative in this area. There is no strong demand for office, retail or residential in this particular area now. The alternatives that keep on getting presented are based on hope, not strategy or vision and that is why they don't happen. If there was stronger demand in the area, then the long empty lot to the south of the mall (the former BMO/Tegler buildings) would have been developed by now.

Any significant change to the mall would require a lot of work, money and effort, so unless or until there is a clear alternative that works financially, they will not happen.

The current city council and administration has little interest in the downtown economy beyond responding/dealing with problems and even less interest in business or economic development beyond the obvious and easy mostly suburban, industrial projects.

Contrary to your remarks the only valuable part of the mall are the office buildings believe it or not and the parkade(s). These towers have performed fairly well and continue to maintain a decent occupancy ~ 80%+.

Demand for downtown residential is also fine as new product is being leased up and newer buildings continue to see strong demand and lower vacancies versus dated product. Westrich has an aggressive pipeline of projects that are u/c and proposed which will add a fair amount of density in the Warehouse/Education District (106 to 108 Streets, Jasper to 102 Avenue). I expect to see Autograph push to start their Shift 2.0 within the next several months, keep an eye on Parks Phase 2, and the old Healy Ford site is being rezoned right now.

Retail is generally soft and has been for awhile. Until we see more companies start to get people back into the office (a trend that has recently picking up) and more residents living in the downtown core I expect demand to continue to be soft with some pockets (good corners) performing better than others. Keep in mind this is for the core area only. Wikhwentowin is different given that it has a decent amount of density and is growing.

 

[Out of Towner]

Do they have housing in Banff or Jasper? I thought that a boutique hotel might be included, but either way, perhaps short-term works there for visitors.

The establishment and development of an urban national park in the river valley would be a transformative project with generational implications for the city and it should be an election issue. At the same time, it's 3 years in and a decision on the feasibility of a feasibility study hasn't been made yet but council is going to make a decision on Dub's project which very well could impact the river valley. As others are pointing out, the leadership to get things done in an orderly fashion just isn't there.

Getting a mandate from the electorate on the desirability of an urban national park is probably the first step in the process. Then work with the Feds and create a holistic plan. Finally, allow groups like Dub and others to do their parts within the framework of the plan.

 

[David A]

Contrary to your remarks the only valuable part of the mall are the office buildings believe it or not and the parkade(s). These towers have performed fairly well and continue to maintain a decent occupancy ~ 80%+.

Demand for downtown residential is also fine as new product is being leased up and newer buildings continue to see strong demand and lower vacancies versus dated product. Westrich has an aggressive pipeline of projects that are u/c and proposed which will add a fair amount of density in the Warehouse/Education District (106 to 108 Streets, Jasper to 102 Avenue). I expect to see Autograph push to start their Shift 2.0 within the next several months, keep an eye on Parks Phase 2, and the old Healy Ford site is being rezoned right now.

Retail is generally soft and has been for awhile. Until we see more companies start to get people back into the office (a trend that has recently picking up) and more residents living in the downtown core I expect demand to continue to be soft with some pockets (good corners) performing better than others. Keep in mind this is for the core area only. Wikhwentowin is different given that it has a decent amount of density and is growing.

Actually, I didn't say anything about the current value of the office buildings or parkades in my comment you responded to. However, with around 20% vacancy downtown I doubt the case currently exists for spending much money to convert the mall retail space into even more office space and I don't see the main or second level of the mall of the mall being turned into a parkade either.

Yes, although weaker than other parts of the city, there is some residential demand in other areas of downtown, but not in this particular area now. I suppose the main or second level of the mall could be converted to that, but that would involve considerable cost and even if that was done the layout of the space is really not well suited for that.

Sorry that's reality.

 

[NicolBolas]

Contrary to your remarks the only valuable part of the mall are the office buildings believe it or not and the parkade(s). These towers have performed fairly well and continue to maintain a decent occupancy ~ 80%+.

Demand for downtown residential is also fine as new product is being leased up and newer buildings continue to see strong demand and lower vacancies versus dated product. Westrich has an aggressive pipeline of projects that are u/c and proposed which will add a fair amount of density in the Warehouse/Education District (106 to 108 Streets, Jasper to 102 Avenue). I expect to see Autograph push to start their Shift 2.0 within the next several months, keep an eye on Parks Phase 2, and the old Healy Ford site is being rezoned right now.

Retail is generally soft and has been for awhile. Until we see more companies start to get people back into the office (a trend that has recently picking up) and more residents living in the downtown core I expect demand to continue to be soft with some pockets (good corners) performing better than others. Keep in mind this is for the core area only. Wikhwentowin is different given that it has a decent amount of density and is growing.

My company was offered great lease incentives in the Telus building. However half the office threatened to quit because parking sucks and nobody wants to deal with all the crime downtown, so we ended up moving to a office in suburbs.

 

[ChazYEG]

nobody wants to deal with all the crime downtown

The worst part of hearing this is that it isn't nearly as bad as public perception.

 

[Kosy123]

The worst part of hearing this is that it isn't nearly as bad as public perception.

I’m half expecting being robbed by armed gunmen based on public perception of downtown crime tbh

Then I realize the closest I’ve ever felt to fearing for my life downtown is almost getting hit while riding a bike lol

 

[ChazYEG]

I’m half expecting being robbed by armed gunmen based on public perception of downtown crime tbh

Then I realize the closest I’ve ever felt to fearing for my life downtown is almost getting hit while riding a bike lol

Exactly. If we guide ourselves by public perception you'd think Edmonton is on par with Tijuana and purge rules apply to Downtown.

Coming from someone who has actually been robber at gunpoint several times in life, I never EVER felt at risk from that in Edmonton.

 

[Avenuer]

Exactly. If we guide ourselves by public perception you'd think Edmonton is on par with Tijuana and purge rules apply to Downtown.

Coming from someone who has actually been robber at gunpoint several times in life, I never EVER felt at risk from that in Edmonton.

What are you saying, Downtown Sao Paulo is more dangerous than Churchill Square? BLASPHEMOUS

 

[constance_chlore]

I do often wonder why the misfortunes that seem to befall so many others in downtown never really seem to happen to me, even though I'm completely reckless about e.g. walking through McCauley at 2 AM.