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turini2 said:
The idea of using the NWC for bike lanes is depressing. Aren't there bigger priorities?
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Bigger priorities than creating room for more automobiles in the urban landscape? Hush.....

- Paul

PS - More seriously, I am impressed that the court gave so much credence to the expert opinions and accumulated data about road design. Their input is hardly news, but the court clearly positioned this as reality and not just rhetoric or far-out urbanist academic thinking. That's a huge win and will have its lasting impact, regardless of what happens on appeal.

DoFo is not known for informed or analytical thinking. He will continue to fawn over the vocal Etobicoke small business community and traditional suburbanist mentality, facts or no facts. I suspect this isn't over.
 
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Popping in here to say that this absolutely should be expected. Not only was the government unable to show any proof of travel time decrease once removed but the whole thing runs contrary to existing SCC precendent.

This whole section 7 thing was established in 2014 with bedford v scc.

The whole point of an appeal is to appeal an incorrect ruling against precedent. This will get shot down instantly.

Remember the injunction still stands even if we go to the SCC
 
innsertnamehere said:
Thanks for the insight. Clearly the Province's lawyers made a terrible argument. From my reading basically all the province would need to do to make this "constitutional" would be to produce a traffic report that models improved traffic flow? I feel like that can't be that difficult. I'm sure there is at least one traffic engineer in this province who will publish a traffic study which shows an increase in capacity with 4 lanes vs. 2...

It's a very odd decision, made odder by the province's apparent ridiculously weak argument. Spend the $20k to do a traffic model and get on with it.
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That probably would be quite difficult to show since it isn't true. What people seem to keep forgetting in this whole thing is that people ride bikes in a dense urban city whether there's a bike lane or not. So they would still be there traveling at bike speed, in a place where there often isn't enough room to pass them safely. The only difference being that if bikes (and sccoters) are forced to share a lane with motor vehicles it makes them much less safe. And that lack of safety means there are fewer of them which can increase motor vehicle traffic. Plus, combining lanes with users of very different speeds and sizes is more disruptive to traffic flow since the road becomes more complicated and less orderly to navigate.
 
Nouvellecosse said:
That probably would be quite difficult to show since it isn't true. What people seem to keep forgetting in this whole thing is that people ride bikes in a dense urban city whether there's a bike lane or not. So they would still be there traveling at bike speed, in a place where there often isn't enough room to pass them safely. The only difference being that if bikes (and sccoters) are forced to share a lane with motor vehicles it makes them much less safe. And that lack of safety means there are fewer of them which can increase motor vehicle traffic. Plus, combining lanes with users of very different speeds and sizes is more disruptive to traffic flow since the road becomes more complicated and less orderly to navigate.
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Nice to see you popping by...........

Good post too!
 
Nouvellecosse said:
That probably would be quite difficult to show since it isn't true. What people seem to keep forgetting in this whole thing is that people ride bikes in a dense urban city whether there's a bike lane or not. So they would still be there traveling at bike speed, in a place where there often isn't enough room to pass them safely. The only difference being that if bikes (and sccoters) are forced to share a lane with motor vehicles it makes them much less safe. And that lack of safety means there are fewer of them which can increase motor vehicle traffic. Plus, combining lanes with users of very different speeds and sizes is more disruptive to traffic flow since the road becomes more complicated and less orderly to navigate.
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Most of the studies they do show that there is some small increase in travel times for drivers. If the city even had done a study where they showed that driving times would increase by 1 minute/day each way for 10,000 drivers (or whatever), they could have argued that the tradeoff in safety is worth it because the city would collectively save 83,000 hours a year of people not stuck in traffic. You might disagree whether it's worth it, but that's a policy decision that the government should be able to make.

But the government didn't even bother trying to meet that minimal threshold. They just said they should be able to do whatever they want, even if it puts people at higher risk.
 
Meanwhile...

From https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/public-consultations/infrastructure-projects/centennial-cycling-connections/

July 2025 Update: Starting the week of August 4 (weather permitting), the City of Toronto will install a new bikeway to provide a safer connection along Mill Road from Burnhamthorpe Road to Centennial Park Boulevard/Rathburn Road, as part of the Centennial Park Cycling Connections Project. View the Installation Notice

The project area is divided into two segments with different changes planned on each segment:
  1. Burnhamthorpe Road from the Mississauga Border to Mill Road. A multi-use trail is planned to be installed on the north side of this segment. There are no impacts to the roadway.
  2. Mill Road from Burnhamthorpe Road to Rathburn Road. A bi-directional cycle track is planned to be installed on the east side of this segment. The number of vehicle lanes will be maintained.

1753984079567.png


Still think there should be a pedestrian and cycling bridge on Rathburn Road between Mississauga and Toronto over the Etobicoke Creek.
 
Monarch Butterfly said:
Meanwhile...

From https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/public-consultations/infrastructure-projects/centennial-cycling-connections/

July 2025 Update: Starting the week of August 4 (weather permitting), the City of Toronto will install a new bikeway to provide a safer connection along Mill Road from Burnhamthorpe Road to Centennial Park Boulevard/Rathburn Road, as part of the Centennial Park Cycling Connections Project. View the Installation Notice

The project area is divided into two segments with different changes planned on each segment:
  1. Burnhamthorpe Road from the Mississauga Border to Mill Road. A multi-use trail is planned to be installed on the north side of this segment. There are no impacts to the roadway.
  2. Mill Road from Burnhamthorpe Road to Rathburn Road. A bi-directional cycle track is planned to be installed on the east side of this segment. The number of vehicle lanes will be maintained.

View attachment 670173

Still think there should be a pedestrian and cycling bridge on Rathburn Road between Mississauga and Toronto over the Etobicoke Creek.
Click to expand...
Things involving several municipalities are always complex!
 
crs1026 said:
Bigger priorities than creating room for more automobiles in the urban landscape? Hush.....

- Paul

PS - More seriously, I am impressed that the court gave so much credence to the expert opinions and accumulated data about road design. Their input is hardly news, but the court clearly positioned this as reality and not just rhetoric or far-out urbanist academic thinking. That's a huge win and will have its lasting impact, regardless of what happens on appeal.

DoFo is not known for informed or analytical thinking. He will continue to fawn over the vocal Etobicoke small business community and traditional suburbanist mentality, facts or no facts. I suspect this isn't over.
Click to expand...
Not to get too much into politics but it's insane my conservative friends are cheering for the party of freedoms, who seems to be content using the most extreme measures available whenever they don't get their way
 
Monarch Butterfly said:
Still think there should be a pedestrian and cycling bridge on Rathburn Road between Mississauga and Toronto over the Etobicoke Creek.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's been studied at some point in the distant past, and I assume it never went forward because the cost was not worth the connectivity.
 
Towered said:
I'm sure it's been studied at some point in the distant past, and I assume it never went forward because the cost was not worth the connectivity.
Click to expand...
More likely because the Toronto portion is in the fiefdom of Etobicoke Centre (Ward 2), councillor Stephen Holyday. He has a repetition against cycling, pedestrians, and public transit. As seen in his voting record at city hall.
 
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