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sche said:
Why do we think it's correct to "blame drivers for congestion"? Should we blame transit riders for overcrowding?

Frankly, I find this attitude (which I also had in the past) quite disrespectful and counterproductive. At the end of the day, drivers, just like everyone else on the road, are just regular people trying to get from A to B, and making their own choices based on travel times, cost, safety, etc. about how they want to do that. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the City to manage our roads and enable fast and reliable transportation, and not the fault of individual road users for choosing what is for them the fastest, safest, or most convenient option. And I think it should be obvious that the City's management of our roads leaves a lot to be desired - from chaotic, poorly executed, and uncoordinated construction projects, causing the streetcar network to become a practically unusable mess and creating numerous large disruptions to vehicle traffic for long periods, to their ham-fisted implementation of LPIs (
) causing unnecessary delay to everybody, etc...

And back to bike lanes - while I am broadly in favour of cycling, we can't just deny that vehicle capacity decreases and vehicle travel times (i.e., congestion) increase when vehicle lanes are replaced with bike lanes, or that cycling volumes, especially on the outer parts of the cycling network (Bloor West into Etobicoke, Danforth) are generally still low compared to vehicle traffic volumes. There are real trade-offs to be made here and how you weigh each of the pros and cons is really a matter of opinion. For example, Bloor West from Shaw to Avenue saw bike lanes mostly replace parking, while at intersections (which are the most important limiting factor for vehicle capacity), the road went from 2 lanes per direction to one lane+ left turn lane; i.e. there was not much change in actual road capacity. Considering these things, as well has the fact that these bike lanes are relatively well used, I fully support them. Meanwhile, Bloor west of Jane typically saw bike lanes replace an entire traffic lane in each direction, causing a significant loss in actual road capacity. Combined with the very low bicycle traffic relative to vehicle traffic, and a relatively empty sidewalk that cautious cyclists could and would use, and the case for these bike lanes is obviously much weaker.
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see i completely agree. I think the abysmal traffic signal implementation in toronto is the number one reason for congestion. Most of them are programmed to stop traffic and not for logical traffic flow. This flow includes cyclists and transit. For example the lead pedestrian signals where streetcars operate. They are on tracks, why cant a streetcar procced with the pedestrians. A dedicated transit signal could improve flow.

If Doug ford actually wanted traffic moving he would had the city get its act together with signal management, but he's focused on the anti bike culture war.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I wonder how vehicular congestion would look if we removed all the bike lanes, all on-street non-residential parking and banned all construction lane blockages.
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I for one will continue to ride in a lane, as is my right under the HTA. Yes, I will stay to the right side and allow cars to pass, but I will occupy the lane.

People want to take the most direct route. That does not usually mean a meandering route with stop signs, some distance from my desired route. (Exception: My ride to work is 8.5 km on surface streets v 10 km mostly through the West Don Valley; Bayview North of Eglinton is hell for cyclists).

There is room for cars and bikes. I agree the roadside parking is a large driver of capacity loss as cars wait to park or reverse into the spots. And the lanes lost to construction is no help
 
PL1 said:
I for one will continue to ride in a lane, as is my right under the HTA. Yes, I will stay to the right side and allow cars to pass, but I will occupy the lane.
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That’s what I’ve always done since I moved to Toronto as a teen in the 1980s. There were no bike lanes, we just stayed to the right and got on with it. No one ran me over - I respected stop signs, street cars and red lights. It seems that cycling in the city was somehow safer, perhaps Torontonians in the 1980s were not such asses to one another. One time while riding home at night from my job at Ontario Place to home in the Beach(es) someone threw a beer bottle in my direction, but that was just some drunk having fun, and no harm done.
 
Admiral Beez said:
That’s what I’ve always done since I moved to Toronto as a teen in the 1980s. There were no bike lanes, we just stayed to the right and got on with it. No one ran me over - I respected stop signs, street cars and red lights. It seems that cycling in the city was somehow safer, perhaps Torontonians in the 1980s were not such asses to one another. One time while riding home at night from my job at Ontario Place to home in the Beach(es) someone threw a beer bottle in my direction, but that was just some drunk having fun, and no harm done.
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Of course one can ride 'on the road' and avoid being run over but it is clearly MUCH safer to use a properly separated bike lane. It is also apples and oranges to compare cycling in the 1980s and in 2025. I suspect people were just as much asses then as now but now there are far more of them in far larger vehicles and, thanks to bike lanes, far more cyclists.
 
1747771377296.png

See https://citychangers.org/the-case-for-car-free/
It’s an easy equation: space that we’re dedicating to cars (driving or parking) is lost urban living space. To give you an example: one car occupies about 15 square meters, one parking spot could provide space for 10 bicycles. And remember, for one car there is the need for at least two parking spots- one at your starting point and one at your destination.

Apart from all these arguments, space allocation in cities simply boils down to their liveability: The space used for car parking or wide car lanes could be re-used making the city a more beautiful place to live and stay in. Whether it would be areas for alternative modes of transportation (like bicycles) or replacing parking lots with playgrounds and housing. If you’re being perfectly honest, even as a car driver you prefer cities that are not built around cars – or did you ever go on holidays in a city because you just loved how well you could drive around in it? Car-free urban areas allow us to give the cities back to whom they really belong: the people.
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robmausser said:
There are several areas of Toronto that should be car free.

Kensington and Yorkville come to mind.
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Partially, for sure. Of course, getting even the partial achieved is no mean trick.

****

bearcat said:
I mean the city tried with Kensington.... my understanding is that it's not happening
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Err..........the latest iteration was certainly very watered down...........I wonder how that resulted in the project being pushed back at least 2 years...........

***

Kensington needs to proceed as it was first planned.......people need to pile-on the area businesses and others who threw an unholy fit and spread all sorts of misinformation in an effort to derail a very good idea.
 
bearcat said:
View attachment 653019View attachment 653020View attachment 653021View attachment 653022

Photos of some quality infrastructure as seen here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1925199009515278477

Is the intention for the.sidealk to be a bike lane here? I assume this is not the the finished product.
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There is certainly an ultimate intent to have continuous bike lanes of some description along the entire Crosstown route. What I'm not sure is .....what the current approved 'interim' design is...........and what the ultimate design is..

The work completed to date is almost certainly Mx.........which has stopped at the limit of its project area, I assume.

The City is then responsible to fill the gap to the next Mx section; or at least that's generally how this project was laid out.

I'll see if I can't ferret out some details.

Alternatively........if someone wants to email the head of the City's cycling unit, and ask, I will provide the contact info, as I have for other's here. Adam is generally happy to talk; but I can't be chirping in his ear all the time.
 
Northern Light said:
There is certainly an ultimate intent to have continuous bike lanes of some description along the entire Crosstown route. What I'm not sure is .....what the current approved 'interim' design is...........and what the ultimate design is..

The work completed to date is almost certainly Mx.........which has stopped at the limit of its project area, I assume.

The City is then responsible to fill the gap to the next Mx section; or at least that's generally how this project was laid out.

I'll see if I can't ferret out some details.

Alternatively........if someone wants to email the head of the City's cycling unit, and ask, I will provide the contact info, as I have for other's here. Adam is generally happy to talk; but I can't be chirping in his ear all the time.
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I think the complication here is also that this is just along the south side of the Celestica site development. The only reason this new intersection even exists is for future residents to enter and exit this site. Further west what were essentially on and off ramps for Eglinton are also being redone.

So whatever cycling infrastructure Metrolinx designed and built out during the LRT construction is probably no longer fitting in with the new intersections.

I am assuming pedestrian and cycling infrastructure was reviewed as part of the approval for that massive development which will be fronting Eglinton here.

I tried looking through the documents from the development applications for buildings there to get an idea of the ultimate design but it's just too many files to go through.
 
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Northern Light said:
There is certainly an ultimate intent to have continuous bike lanes of some description along the entire Crosstown route. What I'm not sure is .....what the current approved 'interim' design is...........and what the ultimate design is..
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Does that mean there will be a bicycle lane/trail/... along Eglinton from Caledonia to Municipal Drive (or to Trethewey)? That would be nice (or in fact any other way to ride from the end of the Beltline trail to Humber). So the question is, what is the distance from ultimate intent to reality.
 
ThenWhat said:
Does that mean there will be a bicycle lane/trail/... along Eglinton from Caledonia to Municipal Drive (or to Trethewey)? That would be nice (or in fact any other way to ride from the end of the Beltline trail to Humber). So the question is, what is the distance from ultimate intent to reality.
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The City has an approved high level concept for the entire route, and detailed design and approval for Keele to Mt. Pleasant.

Not sure about the status of the remaining missing segments. The segment shown here should, I think, be on Mx to finish. (ie. complete to where the LRT leaves Eginton (portal) ....but don't hold me to that.

Generally, Mx completed a surface bike lanes/cycle track where they built at-grade LRT.

Some of that is only painted bike lane. The approved design in those spots would never pass City standards today.....but Mx is building what was planned over a decade ago.
 
Northern Light said:
Kensington needs to proceed as it was first planned.......people need to pile-on the area businesses and others who threw an unholy fit and spread all sorts of misinformation in an effort to derail a very good idea.
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The opposition made no sense to me. Kensington is absolutely mobbed with people every Car Free Sunday in the summer. And there's enough people on the streets on normal summer weekends that it's very difficult to drive anyways.
 
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