[jaycola]

Toronto City Council passed a by-law in 2000 making second suites legal in the City of Toronto in all single family and semi-detached homes, providing they meet certain criteria, including fire and building codes.

This below Provincial Policy Statement was issued under the Planning Act and came into effect on March 1, 2005.

In discussing intensification it specifically describes the creation of accessory apartments as a provincial goal for increasing density.

http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page1485.aspx

"...Policy 1.4.3 Planning authorities shall provide for an appropriate range of housing types and densities to meet projected requirements of current and future residents of the regional market area by:

...establishing and implementing minimum targets for the provision of housing which is affordable to low and moderate income households. ...permitting and facilitating...the conversion or expansion of existing residential buildings to create new residential units or accommodation, including accessory apartments, secondary suites and rooming houses."
(Edited for brevity, It is a government document after all)

Around the GTA second suites are legal in Newmarket and East Gwillimbury, as well as Pickering. They are not under consideration in Vaughan (big surprise there) but Aurora is considering them. In Brampton and Mississauga they are presently illegal.

I think that we may be missing a great opportunity with Basement apartments for the creation of subsidised housing.

A basement apartment can be built for somewhere between $20,000-$40,000.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32240.aspx

Certainly that's a fraction of the cost of new construction by government. If the government could provide $20,000 in low cost loans, we could rapidly increase the availability of low cost housing. We could possibly offer grants for homeowners if they accept tenants from the 70,000 unit waiting list.

There are many side benifits as well in terms of increased density, support for those having financial hardship and a boost to the local constructon industry.

For $1 Billion we could stimulate construction of 50,000 units. The units would be legal, registered and the income taxable. Receipts would be required for construction removing the underground economy from the equasion and making the income from the products and services taxable.

 

[Felino]

Who in their proper mind would rent out their basement to someone requiring public housing? I certainly wouldn't rent to a 6th generation Canadian baby momma. Seeing as my wife grew up in public housing, I know the 'cycle of poverty' as socialists like to call is a crock of shite. More than half of the people in public housing grew up in them (almost all women), got pregnant by a crackhead and/or pimp on a bike and we're paying for her to have affordable housing almost free of charge ($120-$280 a month in most cases for a 3 bedroom townhouse and/or apartment).

I detest baby mommas.

 

[threnody]

Seeing as my wife grew up in public housing, I know the 'cycle of poverty' as socialists like to call is a crock of shite. More than half of the people in public housing grew up in them (almost all women), got pregnant by a crackhead and/or pimp on a bike and we're paying for her to have affordable housing almost free of charge ($120-$280 a month in most cases for a 3 bedroom townhouse and/or apartment).

I detest baby mommas.

You do realize that what you just described is sort of like a cycle. Where children grow up in poverty and then end up living in poverty themselves. Almost like a...cycle of poverty?

 

[toraerach]

You do realize that what you just described is sort of like a cycle. Where children grow up in poverty and then end up living in poverty themselves. Almost like a...cycle of poverty?

And one of the best ways to break the cycle of poverty is to mix the poor and the better off in one neighbourhood, which basement apartments could potentially do. Not to mention the fact that they can keep people from ever having to resort to social housing. Plus the "poor" in this case includes students/others moving out of their parents' homes for the first time.

I've noticed many immigrant families rent out their basments (legally or not) to newer immigrants from their home countries, or to students studying over here. Many Filipino families I know, for example, do this.

Another benefit of basement apartments is that it can provide income for senior citizens so that they can afford to remain in their homes. Basements often go to waste anyways - if someone wants to rent their's out and make some extra money, there should be no law standing in their way (as long as the apartments are up to code).

 

[Felino]

It does sound like one, but let me explain.

These young ladies have a choice in Canada. They get pregnant because they choose to. There are many options available to them should they choose not to have a baby such as birth control, the morning after pool, condoms, abortion, etc...

It's easier to continue living life in the comfortable ghetto than try and get out of it. The young ladies get pregnant, the city quickly gives them an apartment along with $1000-$1200 a month. This doesn't seem like a lot until you realize that they are only paying $150 a month for this apartment.

The best part is that these baby mommas continue to have sex on a regular basis with their boyfriends as soon as they get out of jail. Then they get pregnant and have more babies. The more babies, the bigger the welfare cheque, the more money for pizza, beer and cigarrettes. Eventually if you have 3 kids from your baby daddies the city will give you one of those town houses near Queen/Spadina.

 

[Felino]

And one of the best ways to break the cycle of poverty is to mix the poor and the better off in one neighbourhood, which basement apartments could potentially do. Not to mention the fact that they can keep people from ever having to resort to social housing. Plus the "poor" in this case includes students/others moving out of their parents' homes for the first time.

I've noticed many immigrant families rent out their basments (legally or not) to newer immigrants from their home countries, or to students studying over here. Many Filipino families I know, for example, do this.

Another benefit of basement apartments is that it can provide income for senior citizens so that they can afford to remain in their homes. Basements often go to waste anyways - if someone wants to rent their's out and make some extra money, there should be no law standing in their way (as long as the apartments are up to code).

My family does rent to immigrant families and has for many years. They are fantastic and the vast majority of them become family friends for years. Right now my mom is renting to a family from Afghanistan, they are honestly the nicest people you can ever come across. They work hard, their 2 kids do their best in school.

But what I'm talking about is something totally different. I would like some way to prevent baby mommas from taking social housing from hard working immigrants.

 

[toraerach]

My family does rent to immigrant families and has for many years. They are fantastic and the vast majority of them become family friends for years. Right now my mom is renting to a family from Afghanistan, they are honestly the nicest people you can ever come across. They work hard, their 2 kids do their best in school.

But what I'm talking about is something totally different. I would like some way to prevent baby mommas from taking social housing from hard working immigrants.

I don't see why "baby mommas" can't be hard working people, and we're not even talking about social housing here. When I was a kid, we lived for a while in a basement apartment while my single mom was working three jobs. Over time we moved up in the world and moved out.

 

[jaycola]

I think the issue of providing social housing is most contentious of the topic.

I presented 2 options for subsidy.

One is a low cost loan for the construction of the apartment. This would increase the availability of legal low cost rental apartments, boost the construction sector and provide additional income to homeowners in need.

The other option was a grant (or monthly subsidy) going to the homeowners who voluntarily provide use of the apartment to someone on the social housing waiting list.

I agree with Felino that there are underserving and undesirable people among the many thousands on waiting lists for housing. Many, I would expect, put their name on the list out of greed more than need. I would not want some of these people in my home either.

But I am sure there are also many thousands that are good, honest people who, sometimes through circumstances out of their control, find themselves unable to put a roof over their head.

Home owners ought to have a say as to who they wish to share their homes with. Some may say this is descriminatory (it may even be illegal) but you should not force particular people together without their consent. A senior may not want young children in their home. A single mom with teenaged daughters may not want a single man in her home and those wishes should be honored.

This option need not be tied to the funds allocated for the construction of the apartment but could be given monthly as a subsidy to those willing to accept tenants from the cities rent rolls. It provides the homeowner of a guarentee of payment of rent and no vacancies.

The poverty cycle, as discussed above, may be broken for some who find themselves out of the large social progects and in a real neighbourhood with diverse populations. Kids may have an opportunity to attend schools with higher rates of success and parents looking for work could benifit from a better address on their resume.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Who in their proper mind would rent out their basement to someone requiring public housing? I certainly wouldn't rent to a 6th generation Canadian baby momma. Seeing as my wife grew up in public housing, I know the 'cycle of poverty' as socialists like to call is a crock of shite. More than half of the people in public housing grew up in them (almost all women), got pregnant by a crackhead and/or pimp on a bike and we're paying for her to have affordable housing almost free of charge ($120-$280 a month in most cases for a 3 bedroom townhouse and/or apartment).

I detest baby mommas.

More than half? Is making up statistics something you do professionally? Is there any way at all you could ever validate that over 50% of people currently in Toronto Public Housing grew up in public housing and got pregnant by a crackhead who may also pimp from a bicycle?

 

[Disparishun]

Around the GTA second suites are legal in Newmarket and East Gwillimbury, as well as Pickering. They are not under consideration in Vaughan (big surprise there) but Aurora is considering them. In Brampton and Mississauga they are presently illegal.

Vaughan, Brampton, and Mississauga are important "inner 905" municipalities, so I think you are right to canvas them.

Do you know what the status is for Markham, Richmond Hill, or Pickering?

 

[threnody]

This sounds like an issue where the province should enforce some common sense. We can argue about whether the government should be subsidizing basement apartments, but I don't see why any property owner should be prevented from offering one at their own cost. It's a simple, very effective way to increase density and curb further sprawl, and the only viable argument against it is inherently classist.

In my mind, it's sort of similar to the province stepping in to halt those idiotic bans on clotheslines.

 

[TrickyRicky]

The reason this is a non-issue is that people who want to rent out portions of their houses or their basements already do so. The legality or illegality is more a formality. In the real world people act in their own interests and use laws as a guideline for complience.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The law is important in this instance because we want to do what we can to avoid slumlords taking advantage of low-income people by renting out basement apartments that are poorly maintained and below reasonable standards of livability.

 

[jaycola]

Do you know what the status is for Markham, Richmond Hill, or Pickering?

In Pickering they appear to be legal since 2005. http://www.cityofpickering.com/standard/services/fire/PDF/TwoUnitDwellings.pdf

Markham is on the verge of legalizing Basement Apartments. To my knowledge no date has been set for a council vote on the issue but A public meeting is set for April 7th. See the link for info... http://www.markham.ca/MARKHAM/CCBS/...velopment Services/pl090303/Second Suites.htm

Highlights of the proposed Markham bylaw are as follows.

New Permission for Second Suites

The proposed new Strategy for Second Suites contemplates an amendment to the Town’s Zoning By-laws to add permissions for second suites Town-wide in residential areas throughout Markham. The purpose of the proposed zoning by-law amendment is to permit second suites Town-wide, in single detached and semi-detached houses, subject to specific development standards, including:

a) both the principal dwelling unit and the secondary dwelling unit must be wholly contained within the single and semi detached dwelling;

b) there are no more than two dwelling units on the same lot;

c) the maximum floor area of the secondary dwelling unit is no more than 45% of the floor area of the single or semi-detached dwelling as it existed prior to the establishment of the secondary dwelling unit;

d) the secondary dwelling unit has a floor area of no less than 35m2;

e) no more than one dwelling entrance is contained within any main wall facing a streetline; and

f) the entrance to either the principal or secondary unit is not contained within the garage door.

The effect of the proposed zoning by-law amendment is to increase the life safety of residents in houses with second suites and increase landlord accountability for complying with building and fire safety codes and zoning and property standards. Where zoning and code compliance is not attainable an existing second suite must be removed.

Richmond Hill, Mississauga and Brampton all state clearly on their websites that any basement apartments built since November 1995 are illegal.
I could find no information an any of the municipal sites that the issue is being discussed.

 

[jaycola]

Legal apartments are important.
A mortgage may be in default if you rent a portion of your property without notifying the bank. Your insurance can be voided if you do not inform your insurance company or if you do not have your electrical system inspected. If you are operating an illegal basement apartment and a tenant were to go the the Ministry of Housing to complain about illegal rent increases or poor condition, you could be liable to very steep fines.
We all know most basement apartments are now illegal but having them legal and registered will benifit owners and tenants in the long run.