[Admiral Beez]

I bought my first house in 1980 and was thrilled to get a 5-year mortgage at 10%.

The difference is the purchase price was probably about four to six times your annual salary. That was me in 1998, when aged 27 and 26 we bought our first house at $298, equal to 4.5x our pretax salaries. I believe mortgages then were about 8%. Nowadays, a SFH purchase is equal to a dozen or more years of income.

That‘s why if I was a young person I’d leave the Golden Horseshoe entirely. There are lots of places in Canada where housing is affordable and good paying jobs can be found. For example, here’s seventy plus single family homes in Saskatoon, SK, under $350k with 3+ bedrooms and 2+ baths and here’s over seven hundred job openings paying more than $70k. It‘s a big country, with excitement and opportunities across the land. In 2004 I moved to Fredericton, NB to see what life was about out east. Get out of southern Ontario, Ottawa and southern BC and young adults can still find the Canadian dream of affordable housing and good jobs.

 

[afransen]

Let me tell you, millennials are so tired of hearing boomers reminisce about paying 15% mortgage rates briefly in the 1980s when they were able to buy a home for 3x the income a high school graduate could earn and saw large annual wage increases.

 

[lenaitch]

The difference is the purchase price was probably about four to six times your annual salary. That was me in 1998, when aged 27 and 26 we bought our first house at $298, equal to 4.5x our pretax salaries. I believe mortgages then were about 8%. Nowadays, a SFH purchase is equal to a dozen or more years of income.

That‘s why if I was a young person I’d leave the Golden Horseshoe entirely. There are lots of places in Canada where housing is affordable and good paying jobs can be found. For example, here’s seventy plus single family homes in Saskatoon, SK, under $350k with 3+ bedrooms and 2+ baths and here’s over seven hundred job openings paying more than $70k. It‘s a big country, with excitement and opportunities across the land. In 2004 I moved to Fredericton, NB to see what life was about out east. Get out of southern Ontario, Ottawa and southern BC and young adults can still find the Canadian dream of affordable housing and good jobs.

Absolutely. I wasn't making a comparison - just a comment.

Let me tell you, millennials are so tired of hearing boomers reminisce about paying 15% mortgage rates briefly in the 1980s when they were able to buy a home for 3x the income a high school graduate could earn and saw large annual wage increases.

And I got tired of my dad saying haircuts used to be nickle. What's you point - it's a open forum. As I mentioned, it was a comment, not a comparison.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Let me tell you, millennials are so tired of hearing boomers reminisce about….

Fondly recalling the past is the very definition of reminiscing. Assuming you‘re of the millennials you speak of, you’ll have plenty of reminisce about that will annoy whatever two or three generations follow you.

 

[afransen]

Fondly recalling the past is the very definition of reminiscing. Assuming you‘re of the millennials you speak of, you’ll have plenty of reminisce about that will annoy whatever two or three generations follow you.

There's usually a subtext of "we had it bad too, don't complain". I'd gladly take 15% interest with 10% inflation/wage increases if it meant I could buy a house for 3x median income.

 

[Admiral Beez]

if it meant I could buy a house for 3x median income.

Who wouldn’t? And you still can, just not in southern Ontario or southern BC. There are tons of towns and smaller cities in this country where SFHs can be had for under $400k where jobs paying $70-90k are plentiful. Our ancestors came to Canada from elsewhere, breaking ties with their parents, friends and careers to make a fresh start. But somehow we’re all blind to the very same opportunity that Canada outside of southern Ontario and southern BC presents, and prefer to stick it out in the GTA and complain about how unaffordable it is.

 

[afransen]

So, is the appropriate response when a boomer complains about 15% mortgage interest in the 80's is to tell them they should have rented instead?

 

[lenaitch]

So, is the appropriate response when a boomer complains about 15% mortgage interest in the 80's is to tell them they should have rented instead?

Again with the 'complaint' angle. Maybe it is said as a brag, or a 'suck it up you babies' statement, or just a comment. Everything needs context.

It is sometimes curious how boomers get taken to task for attitudes and statements but people born before 1946 not so much.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So, is the appropriate response..

Who decides what’s appropriate? Just do you and stop worrying what others think.

 

[PinkLucy]

It’s easy to say just go somewhere else where housing is cheaper, but there are a lot of considerations. I lived somewhere else for 30 years and am so happy to be back in the Golden Horseshoe. Life in a small(er) town isn’t for everyone. And it isn’t just about housing … food prices, gas prices, etc can often be higher. Not all careers (vs jobs) are available everywhere. My kids always say the kids they grew up with who stayed small town have jobs, but those who left have careers. There are multiple considerations when choosing where to live.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Who wouldn’t? And you still can, just not in southern Ontario or southern BC. There are tons of towns and smaller cities in this country where SFHs can be had for under $400k where jobs paying $70-90k are plentiful. Our ancestors came to Canada from elsewhere, breaking ties with their parents, friends and careers to make a fresh start. But somehow we’re all blind to the very same opportunity that Canada outside of southern Ontario and southern BC presents, and prefer to stick it out in the GTA and complain about how unaffordable it is.

... and Southern Ontario + Lower Mainland migrants are driving housing prices up everywhere else in the country. Calgary is seeing 15%+ YOY rent increases; Halifax is increasing 10%; Montreal looks like the GTA in 2015; basically no part of Southern Ontario is affordable anymore.

Telling people to move 1000s of kilometres might work for some individuals. It's not a systematic solution, especially when they start bringing a housing crisis with them.

 

[Admiral Beez]

basically no part of Southern Ontario is affordable anymore.

IDK how you can make this claim. On Realtor.ca there are over twelve hundred SFH in southern Ontario at under $450k. Make the max $600k there are over five thousand SFH in Southern ON. For any couple making a combined $70-$100k a year, $450k to $600k is reasonably affordable.

Life in a small(er) town isn’t for everyone. And it isn’t just about housing..

You don't have to restrict yourself to small towns. Here's London, ON. There are over 140 listings for SFH for under $550k and over 1,100 jobs in London on Indeed paying over $70k and almost 500 jobs paying over $90k. A friend of mine worked at UofT and recently moved to a new role at the University of Windsor. She sold her downtown Toronto condo and bought a nice house for under $400k, of which there are 145 SFH to choose from today. She a professional in university administration and would not agree that when she left Toronto for Windsor that she traded a career for a job.

There are affordable homes and good paying jobs all across this province and country. If I was a young adult seeing this wide expanse of opportunities, there's no way I'd settle for a reality where I will never own a home beyond a small condo, or if I do I'll never pay it off. Of course as a parent, I'd like my young adult children to remain nearby, if only for my self-serving wish to be near to family as I grow old and feeble, and possible grandchildren. But that thinking didn't stop our great-grandparents from moving from overseas to begin new lives in Canada, often to never see their relatives again. Compared to what our ancestors had to give up, asking me to take a train, for example to Windsor to visit the grandkids is hardly an ordeal.

 

[PinkLucy]

London is nice. Thanks but no thanks to Windsor; my kid lives down that way, and every time I visit I'm glad I don't live there. His job involves international travel; his spouse has a good paying job in a hospital but knows their career options are limited because they choose not to live in the GTA. So yes the $$ is there but career advancement only goes so far. It's all personal choices. My other kid's spouse has some significant career aspirations and is going gangbusters towards meeting those, but it relies on availability downtown, even post-covid. That's important to them, and they love their Beach lifestyle even with the small house and accompanying mortgage (my parents grew up in the Beach, they are likely rolling in their graves seeing it now). People need to be happy and make the decisions that work for them. It's not as cut and dried as I can get a house here for this price and there are jobs on Indeed. Life is about tradeoffs -- for some, lifestyle is more important than housing, for others the 4 bedroom 3 bath house is the key driver. I made a decision that I lived with for 30 years when I was a young adult, but I would make a different decision today because of what I gave up to have that large house.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's not as cut and dried as I can get a house here for this price and there are jobs on Indeed. Life is about tradeoffs -- for some, lifestyle is more important than housing, for others the 4 bedroom 3 bath house is the key driver.

I understand your pov. In 2004 I moved to Fredericton, NB for more money in a good job and a very affordable housing. By 2007 we were feeling isolated and itching for Toronto and urban living and came back. But I am very glad we made the decision to live and work outside of the GTA. That said, had we not kept the house in Toronto as a rental, we'd likely not have been able to return.

One thing I notice when I travel to Europe is that small towns have a different feel. I wonder if it's because people with education, money and class can easily commute from small towns to the city. My cousin in the UK lives in a beautiful small town near Colchester and takes the train to his corporate job in London along with near a million other daily British rail users. While in Canada, our small towns seem more fall down, clapboard and white trash.

Thanks but no thanks to Windsor;

Top of the list! lol

Top 10 Worst Places to Live in Ontario: Cities to Consider Avoiding

Ontario, the most populous province in Canada, is home to vibrant cities like Toronto and Ottawa, as well as picturesque small towns and rural areas. While many locations offer excellent living conditions, some areas in the province may not be the best choice for residents seeking a high quality...

www.vaughantoday.ca

 

[DirectionNorth]

IDK how you can make this claim. On Realtor.ca there are over twelve hundred SFH in southern Ontario at under $450k. Make the max $600k there are over five thousand SFH in Southern ON. For any couple making a combined $70-$100k a year, $450k to $600k is reasonably affordable.

All you need to do to live in Southern Ontario is make above the median household income, which the CMHC reported as $65,000 after taxes. That's not a very compelling vision.

You don't have to restrict yourself to small towns. Here's London, ON. There are over 140 listings for SFH for under $550k and over 1,100 jobs in London on Indeed paying over $70k and almost 500 jobs paying over $90k. A friend of mine worked at UofT and recently moved to a new role at the University of Windsor. She sold her downtown Toronto condo and bought a nice house for under $400k, of which there are 145 SFH to choose from today. She a professional in university administration and would not agree that when she left Toronto for Windsor that she traded a career for a job.

Or we could start taking steps provide affordable housing in our largest cities and job markets.

Crazy idea, I know.

Oh, and speaking of London, here's their housing market stats from the CREA. I've also included Windsor.

There are affordable homes and good paying jobs all across this province and country. If I was a young adult seeing this wide expanse of opportunities, there's no way I'd settle for a reality where I will never own a home beyond a small condo, or if I do I'll never pay it off. Of course as a parent, I'd like my young adult children to remain nearby, if only for my self-serving wish to be near to family as I grow old and feeble, and possible grandchildren. But that thinking didn't stop our great-grandparents from moving from overseas to begin new lives in Canada, often to never see their relatives again. Compared to what our ancestors had to give up, asking me to take a train, for example to Windsor to visit the grandkids is hardly an ordeal.

"Other people sacrificed more" isn't a very compelling argument for not-solving a very solvable problem with our society. That our collective minds cannot even imagine affordable housing in the GTHA is a sign of serious societal stagnation in this area.