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evandyk said:
what about places like Peterborough or Brockville, where you literally cannot go anywhere without a car?
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My adult daughter lives in Peterborough and does not drive. She goes all over the place by bus or foot. She walks with her bundle buggy to/from the local supermarket and shops. She tells me she much prefers the pedestrian and transit experience in Peterborough vs. downtown east Toronto due to the lack of what she calls “crazy people” (I assume she means addicts and the insane) and fewer leering pervs and creeps. When we visit, we walk from her place to several nice independent restaurants nearby in the very walkable downtown strip. Due to the high number of Trent U students (tuition includes free transit), the buses in Peterborough are frequent and cover much of the city. Here’s the map.

And homes are affordable in Peterborough. Here’s forty eight listings under $500k. Check out this cute starter home for under $400k https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/24682423/92-ware-st-peterborough-downtown

You definitely do not need a car to live a good life in Peterborough.
 
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I lived car-free in Waterloo for 3-4 years as a student. It was very doable. I will admit, it was largely because I was trying to live inexpensively. It helps that smaller cities are not impossibly huge to get across between walking, transit, and bike.
 
I've never lived in Peterborough, and I'm sure it has a small walkable downtown core. But I think it's pretty fair to say it's unusual to live in cities with that profile without a car, though people do. It's fair to say that it's unusual to live in Toronto without a car too, though a lot more people do (in absolute, not necessarily relative, terms).

I went to school in Waterloo too. From my social circles, it was pretty unusual for any student to have a car, in Waterloo and elsewhere. Cars are expensive!
 
Somewhat continuing the off-topic tangent, just saw a video on how expensive cars are to both owners and society. Kind of shocking, really.

 
afransen said:
Somewhat continuing the off-topic tangent, just saw a video on how expensive cars are to both owners and society. Kind of shocking, really.

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I own a 2000 VW, for which I paid $3k in 2015. I work from home, so I drive about 5,000 km per year. My annual costs are as follows:

$212 - Toronto on-street parking permit
$1,200 - Liability insurance (no collision, fire or theft)
$1,000 - Fuel to travel 5k km at $2 per L (less the $0.50/km my employer pays when I visit clients)
$1,000 - Est for maintenance, winter/summer tire swaps

Total annual car expense $3,412.
 
Only 1$k to maintain a 23 year old VW sounds lucky! Oil changes and wear components would be a big part of that figure.
 
afransen said:
Only 1$k to maintain a 23 year old VW sounds lucky! Oil changes and wear components would be a big part of that figure.
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At ~5000km/year, that's less than a typical oil change cycle. Even if you do one annually it's like $40-odd. Some components suffer from use - others from lack of use.
 
Most manufacturers recommend oil changes in time or mileage, whichever comes first. I guess on a 23 year old car you can disregard the advice.
 
afransen said:
Only 1$k to maintain a 23 year old VW sounds lucky! Oil changes and wear components would be a big part of that figure.
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Oh, she’s had her $3k years in the near past. Starter flywheel shattered after it was stolen, that cost me $2+ k for engine drop. Plus brakes, etc. I got the car for $3k in 2015, and I’ve probably spent $10k in everything from struts, head gaskets, brakes, etc in those seven years. But since I changed to wfh she sits out front covered in leaves.
 
That is 40% more than your estimate, but yeah... most projections of what car ownership will cost you depend on more typical behaviour, like owning newer cars and driving more. Just like home ownership, there are ways to cut your costs.
 
Admiral Beez said:
My adult daughter lives in Peterborough and does not drive. She goes all over the place by bus or foot. She walks with her bundle buggy to/from the local supermarket and shops. She tells me she much prefers the pedestrian and transit experience in Peterborough vs. downtown east Toronto due to the lack of what she calls “crazy people” (I assume she means addicts and the insane) and fewer leering pervs and creeps. When we visit, we walk from her place to several nice independent restaurants nearby in the very walkable downtown strip. Due to the high number of Trent U students (tuition includes free transit), the buses in Peterborough are frequent and cover much of the city. Here’s the map.

And homes are affordable in Peterborough. Here’s forty eight listings under $500k. Check out this cute starter home for under $400k https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/24682423/92-ware-st-peterborough-downtown

You definitely do not need a car to live a good life in Peterborough.
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Peterborough is my sleeper pick. If HFR gets built, demand to live there will skyrocket.
 
Undead said:
The problem is that our economy relies on immigration for cheap labour to do the jobs Canadians won't;
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But it’s so unfair how we trick potential immigrants.


When my family emigrated to Canada from the UK in the mid 1970s my Dad need only appeoach the HR Dept at J.Water Thompson in London where he worked in ad sales and request a transfer to the Toronto office. Done. With that we all moved to the GTA, bought a house (interest rates were well over 15% IIRC) and get on with life. That’s how first world immigration flows worked, with easy transitions and qualification recognition.

Today’s immigrants to Canada rarely have this experience. Instead they‘re not told that their education, credentials, skills and experience are mostly meaningless. All we want is their unskilled labour, plus their young children to become tomorrow’s consumers and if women, our professional class. I think people would think twice about coming here if they knew.
 
Admiral Beez said:
But it’s so unfair how we trick potential immigrants.


When my family emigrated to Canada from the UK in the mid 1970s my Dad need only appeoach the HR Dept at J.Water Thompson in London where he worked in ad sales and request a transfer to the Toronto office. Done. With that we all moved to the GTA, bought a house (interest rates were well over 15% IIRC) and get on with life. That’s how first world immigration flows worked, with easy transitions and qualification recognition.

Today’s immigrants to Canada rarely have this experience. Instead they‘re not told that their education, credentials, skills and experience are mostly meaningless. All we want is their unskilled labour, plus their young children to become tomorrow’s consumers and if women, our professional class. I think people would think twice about coming here if they knew.
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Oh, I couldn't agree more. What's more, most of my friend network, all of whom are non-white immigrants, say the same thing. Many people are realizing the way this country currently does immigration harms both the country and emigrating hopefuls.
 
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