Towered
Superstar
This makes it all the more critical that Russia must finally be humiliated.
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- Thread starter Towered
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
Lots of people want this. The question is how to do it.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Ukraine is buggered.
DSCToronto
Superstar
The Thread title may need to be updated to 2022-2025.
This, from Economist, is interesting. (Also that there have been zero posts in this thread since November! Has the US simply followed the lead set by UTers???)
This, from Economist, is interesting. (Also that there have been zero posts in this thread since November! Has the US simply followed the lead set by UTers???)
Admiral Beez
Superstar
What's the best path forward for Ukraine to continue fighting but without US assistance? Can Ukraine carry on the fight with EU and other (Australian, Canada…) support?
It may also rattle some in the EU (Hungary, Slovakia…) if Putin and Trump working together, announce that an armistice and settlement proposal has been co-drafted by Russia and the US, but has been rejected by Zelenskyy.
It may also rattle some in the EU (Hungary, Slovakia…) if Putin and Trump working together, announce that an armistice and settlement proposal has been co-drafted by Russia and the US, but has been rejected by Zelenskyy.
afransen
Senior Member
The idea of the US being able to impose a deal on Ukraine without them at the table or Europe kind of requires that the US not only stops providing aid, but imposing arms controls on Ukraine and their European allies. It's one thing to stop giving aid for free, and another to refuse to sell weapons. The EU can also just start to sell their own domestic defense products to Ukraine in lieu of US systems. Trump reaching a deal with Putin doesn't mean an end to the war if Ukraine is not on board.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
A lot of the defence systems in Europe include US components. It’s one of the reasons the SAAB Gripen with its US engine was not sold internationally compared to the French Mirage and Rafale. Trump could impose export controls on EU systems that contain US parts.
afransen
Senior Member
That would be pretty wild though. Tantamount to siding with Russia. Next he'll try imposing sanctions of Ukraine and the EU.
kEiThZ
Superstar
They can. And they will.
They'll fight with sticks if they have to. The idea that they'll rollover and die is just preposterous.
Also, while stalemated, Ukraine has been able to dramatically increase domestic production. All those FPV drones are made in Ukraine. And recently companies like Roshel of Canada and Rheinmetall of Germany have started building manufacturing facilities in Western Ukraine that will pump out arms.
Meanwhile Russia is so desperate they are paying millions of rubles in recruiting bonuses, imposing indefinite contract renewals, all while not meeting recruiting goals and shutting down prisons after sending all those prisoners to Ukraine. They are draining pension funds to pay for this war, along with all kinds of other reserves. If this war continues for a few more years like this, they might actually need an IMF bailout. And even if it doesn't, the country is irreversibly screwed. They blew that massive Soviet stockpile, hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of rubles on gaining like 20% of Ukraine. Those gains, even if cemented, will never pay off the economic and social cost. This is why Putin is going all out to get Trump to impose a settlement of any kind.
kEiThZ
Superstar
He could. And may do this. If he does, it's the end of the US defence sector in the long run. The French have long argued for strategic independence. And that includes from ITAR. They will have been proven right and Europe will split off from the US.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Fund Ukraine now or spend way more to deal with the Russians later. Europe would need to bump spending to 3.5-4% of GDP to field the 50 brigades that might be needed to face off a 700k Russian army. And we better hope they aren't forcibly adding Ukrainians to that number.
www.ifw-kiel.de
Europe would have to mobilize 300,000 soldiers to defend itself against Russia without the USA
An analysis by the Brussels-based research institute Bruegel and the Kiel Institute for the World Economy estimates the costs and requirements if Europe has to defend itself against Russia without the support of the USA. According to the estimations, considerable defense investments of around...
www.ifw-kiel.de
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The nuclear doomsday clock must be clicking closer to midnight today.
www.armyrecognition.com
Flash News: France Offers European Nuclear Shield with Rafale Jets in Germany After Meeting with US President
Flash News: France Offers European Nuclear Shield with Rafale Jets in Germany After Meeting with US President
www.armyrecognition.com
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'll give credit where due. At least their Boomers are putting their lives where their mouths are. Unlike ours who simply suck society dry and whine when called out.
www.ft.com
Incidentally, they are resorting to 50+ year olds (in a country with life expectancy of 72) because they are running out of young people and because they are better off paying bonuses now and having these grandpas killed than have them cash in pension obligations. This is how desperate Russia actually is.
The Russian over-50s fighting and dying in Ukraine
Grandfathers are among contract soldiers being killed on the front line, data shows
www.ft.com
Incidentally, they are resorting to 50+ year olds (in a country with life expectancy of 72) because they are running out of young people and because they are better off paying bonuses now and having these grandpas killed than have them cash in pension obligations. This is how desperate Russia actually is.
lenaitch
Senior Member
[/QUOTE]
Is it really necessary to use a tired Internet trope that insults an entire generation to make your point? The term 'Boomer', when used like that, is dismissive and ageist. How well do you think it would go over is people used a similar term to broad brush an entire race, nationality or religion?
Towered
Superstar
The problem for Trump is that he cannot impose a settlement on Ukraine, and they've been very clear about that. Zelensky just said this week that not an inch of occupied Ukrainian territory will be given up. Now that is a true leader.