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I don't really understand the controversy with this section of roadway. It was already a PITA and slow to drive down because of all the school zones, so it was a road I avoided. Not sure why the province would get involved here either, different story if they did something similar at 137 Avenue but here? This shouldn't have much if any impact on the overall transportation network vehicle capacity.
 
I suspect that Councilor Caterina has done the math and is of the view that $100M over represents the interest of cyclists at the expense of competing interest groups. What other special interest group receives that kind of money without making a supplemental financial contribution to their pursuit. In response to your assertion that the capital cost of constructing roads is greater than bike paths, I don't dispute that. However, let's attribute the cost of utility corridors for water, sewer, and electricity as well as overhead lighting to bike paths instead of roads and see whether bike path or roads are cheaper to construct on a km basis.
You think he’s done the math??? He’s done it as good as you have bud.

Our cycling number for transportation is somewhere around 1-2%, for the entire city, which excludes children.

If you include kids, and look at central areas, that number jumps to 3-6% in many neighborhoods. Especially ones with safe bike lanes.

In our last budget cycle, we spent 1.8 billion on roads (purely new/renewal…not potholes, snow clearing, sweeping). If you want to proportionally invest in bike infrastructure, whats 2% of that? 36 million.

In previous budget cycles, nowhere close to that has been invested in cycling. So 100mil is barely catching us up for the last decade, not even close to the last 30+ years.

And the 1-2% numbers are somewhat silly because:
a) central areas see 5-10% rates, which is where much of the infrastructure has been built and therefore you could argue even more should be invested.
b) the numbers don’t represent kids/youth who need safe ways to get to school, jobs, friends.
c) doesn’t represent the massive increase in fair weather bikers we see in summers. Occasional riders deserve safe infrastructure too. We invest hundreds of millions in playgrounds and seasonal amenities…why do we see bike lanes differently?
d) none of this points to the level of investment needed to hit our “goals” or latent potential. The question we should ask is: if we had safe bike lanes on every road, how high would our cycling numbers get? 10% citywide? 15% centrally? If so, how much do we invest to work towards that? Same way you don’t say “no one wants to use transit” in a city with 5 bus routes and no trains. You have to consider what a true metro and robust bus network might do.

We don’t have a robust network of bike infrastructure yet. We have random paths here and there and a few central lanes. A true network will boost ridership.

There’s a point where extra investment has diminishing returns on investment, but we are nowhere close to that yet. A route like 102ave downtown saw just a few thousand rides in summer months before we built bike lanes. Now that route sees 30,000+ monthly rides for half the year and 5000+ rides in our coldest months like January. There’s still a good dozen or more routes with that sort of ridership growth potential in our city, so we need to keep building.
 
Not only that, but since this $100 million is for construction of new bike lanes, it's a one-time expense that will create a functional bike grid for the indefinite future, with ongoing maintenance costs that are a drop in the bucket compared to road maintenance.

(I'm surprised that beginning a sentence with "I think Tony Caterina has done the math..." hasn't prompted some more internal reflection.)
 
You think he’s done the math??? He’s done it as good as you have bud.

Our cycling number for transportation is somewhere around 1-2%, for the entire city, which excludes children.

If you include kids, and look at central areas, that number jumps to 3-6% in many neighborhoods. Especially ones with safe bike lanes.

In our last budget cycle, we spent 1.8 billion on roads (purely new/renewal…not potholes, snow clearing, sweeping). If you want to proportionally invest in bike infrastructure, whats 2% of that? 36 million.

In previous budget cycles, nowhere close to that has been invested in cycling. So 100mil is barely catching us up for the last decade, not even close to the last 30+ years.

And the 1-2% numbers are somewhat silly because:
a) central areas see 5-10% rates, which is where much of the infrastructure has been built and therefore you could argue even more should be invested.
b) the numbers don’t represent kids/youth who need safe ways to get to school, jobs, friends.
c) doesn’t represent the massive increase in fair weather bikers we see in summers. Occasional riders deserve safe infrastructure too. We invest hundreds of millions in playgrounds and seasonal amenities…why do we see bike lanes differently?
d) none of this points to the level of investment needed to hit our “goals” or latent potential. The question we should ask is: if we had safe bike lanes on every road, how high would our cycling numbers get? 10% citywide? 15% centrally? If so, how much do we invest to work towards that? Same way you don’t say “no one wants to use transit” in a city with 5 bus routes and no trains. You have to consider what a true metro and robust bus network might do.

We don’t have a robust network of bike infrastructure yet. We have random paths here and there and a few central lanes. A true network will boost ridership.

There’s a point where extra investment has diminishing returns on investment, but we are nowhere close to that yet. A route like 102ave downtown saw just a few thousand rides in summer months before we built bike lanes. Now that route sees 30,000+ monthly rides for half the year and 5000+ rides in our coldest months like January. There’s still a good dozen or more routes with that sort of ridership growth potential in our city, so we need to keep building.
Contesting the rate of usership by 1 or 2 % is quibbling and it doesn't change the fact that cyclists don't make a financial contribution to their preferred mode of transportation. All motorists, transit riders, and airline passengers pay a fee in one form or another to support their transportation preference. Perhaps it's time that cyclists did the same to at least help address their safety concerns. For example, a licensing fee could be used for a group no fault insurance program. It's not uncommon for a cyclist to approach from behind and ring their bell for people to get the hell out of their way because they're coming through. In the unfortunate event that an accident does occur, insurance would at least offer a degree of protection to indemnify cyclists from litigation. As the bike path network expands and the number of cyclists grows, it's inevitable that some accidents are going to occur.
 
Over half a million cycling trips across the city October 2019 to March 2020, down to just over 400,000 the following October to March. 2019-20 was actually a fairly mild winter while 2020-21 was a bitter winter in addition to being in the height of COVID. In December 2023 when we had virtually no snow on the ground on Christmas Day, 90,000 cycling trips were recorded.
 
Contesting the rate of usership by 1 or 2 % is quibbling and it doesn't change the fact that cyclists don't make a financial contribution to their preferred mode of transportation. All motorists, transit riders, and airline passengers pay a fee in one form or another to support their transportation preference. Perhaps it's time that cyclists did the same to at least help address their safety concerns. For example, a licensing fee could be used for a group no fault insurance program. It's not uncommon for a cyclist to approach from behind and ring their bell for people to get the hell out of their way because they're coming through. In the unfortunate event that an accident does occur, insurance would at least offer a degree of protection to indemnify cyclists from litigation. As the bike path network expands and the number of cyclists grows, it's inevitable that some accidents are going to occur.

Gas taxes and registration make up a small fraction of required road maintenance. The majority of road maintenance is heavily subsidized from general provincial revenue and property taxes.

Cyclists are covered under personal liability insurance through their home insurance companies. Now if someone is unable to afford personal liability insurance, it's highly unlikely we'll see a single cent from them through litigation anyway, but that's for the insurance company to figure out. Licensing is unlikely to be enforceable and it's going to be mostly administration costs relative to the actual cost of wear and tear to roads and pathways, injury and damage to persons and properties, etc. Then where do we stop? Longboards? Skateboards? Inline skates? Horses? What about children? The houseless population?
 
All motorists, transit riders, and airline passengers pay a fee in one form or another to support their transportation preference.

@Out of Towner

My primary mode of transportation is walking. I live central and walk to work, groceries, the gym etc. I use sidewalks and multi-use paths.

Based on your logic, what should I pay?

A woman in my building is in a motorized wheelchair and uses sidewalks and bike lanes sometimes. What should she pay?

What if someone drives 95% of the time but walks and bikes the other times. What should they pay?
 
Contesting the rate of usership by 1 or 2 % is quibbling and it doesn't change the fact that cyclists don't make a financial contribution to their preferred mode of transportation. All motorists, transit riders, and airline passengers pay a fee in one form or another to support their transportation preference. Perhaps it's time that cyclists did the same to at least help address their safety concerns. For example, a licensing fee could be used for a group no fault insurance program. It's not uncommon for a cyclist to approach from behind and ring their bell for people to get the hell out of their way because they're coming through. In the unfortunate event that an accident does occur, insurance would at least offer a degree of protection to indemnify cyclists from litigation. As the bike path network expands and the number of cyclists grows, it's inevitable that some accidents are going to occur.
Can you establish that this is a real problem? Do you have numbers on how many incidents there were in which a cyclist caused injury to someone else necessitating medical treatment?

Besides, the whole deal with bike lanes is so that cyclists wouldn't be riding on sidewalks and sharing space with pedestrians in high-traffic areas.
 
Carney is promising billions in new infrastructure spending (including bike paths and lanes). How does that square with the UCP ideas of trying to ban bike infrastructure? Will the money be used to rip out existing paths and lanes? Lol.
 
Can you establish that this is a real problem? Do you have numbers on how many incidents there were in which a cyclist caused injury to someone else necessitating medical treatment?

Besides, the whole deal with bike lanes is so that cyclists wouldn't be riding on sidewalks and sharing space with pedestrians in high-traffic areas.


Those are a couple of examples of why a bicycle license plate would be helpful for identification purposes.
 
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Contesting the rate of usership by 1 or 2 % is quibbling and it doesn't change the fact that cyclists don't make a financial contribution to their preferred mode of transportation. All motorists, transit riders, and airline passengers pay a fee in one form or another to support their transportation preference. Perhaps it's time that cyclists did the same to at least help address their safety concerns. For example, a licensing fee could be used for a group no fault insurance program. It's not uncommon for a cyclist to approach from behind and ring their bell for people to get the hell out of their way because they're coming through. In the unfortunate event that an accident does occur, insurance would at least offer a degree of protection to indemnify cyclists from litigation. As the bike path network expands and the number of cyclists grows, it's inevitable that some accidents are going to occur.
Once again, as many have stated, PROPERTY TAXES PAY FOR RESIDENTIAL ROADS AND TRANSIT. Plus our provincial and federal taxes pay for larger projects like the yellowhead, LRT, etc.

Bikers pay for bike lanes. Full stop.

And someone that primarily bikes, instead of drives, actually SUBSIDIZES a household with multiple people who primarily drive.

So please, if you’re too dense to get your head around the basic facts, stop arguing.

The reason transit and airlines, ferries and bike shares all have fares is because there are operational costs. Same with the gas tax, it’s meant to help with the renewal and maintenance of roads, which is a significantly higher cost than anything bike infrastructure requires. When someone rides their bike, there’s literally a net benefit to society when you factor in healthcare costs, pollution, and reduce car costs (damage/collisions/policing/insurance).

People who bike save you money. Stop arguing they need to pay even more.
 


Those are a couple of examples of why a bicycle license plate would be helpful for identification purposes.
Some people gotta learn the difference of stats vs stories. This is how vaccine misinformation leads to measles being a thing again….

Those videos aren’t any statically significant reason for licensing bikes. Runners sometimes bump into people too. Should running shoes require registration now as well?
 
@Out of Towner

Cycling infrastructure is infrastructure for everyone. It makes everybody's life better, including drivers, because it gives people a safe option to get around their local area that is comparable in speed to driving yet reduces traffic on the road. I suggest you actually try using a bike path or shared use path. It's a pleasant experience, I promise.

Motorists should pay more in taxes than they already do because, as a motorist, you operate a machine measured in TONS which can go a hundred kilometres an hour and kill people in an instant if not done correctly. Motor vehicles also harm and kill people passively over time through emissions and noise pollution.

Cyclists operate a 30-50 IB machine which has about as much impact on the road as walking does. Do we tax pedestrians?? Hell no, because that would be absurd. Ask yourself: Why the hell would an elected official who subscribes to actual data, research and common sense discourage behaviours which cost infrastructure and taxpayers less?

Here's the answer: Minister Devin Dreeshen, Karen Principe and Tony Caterina don't care about actual data, research and common sense when it comes to cycling infrastructure. They are all capitalizing off of misinformed voters who, through the very real lobbying of the auto and petrochemicals industries, have been led to believe that bike lanes are the root of all their problems. Let's not care about the fact that the YELLOWHEAD FREEWAY RUNS RIGHT BESIDE THIS AREA. Let's not care about all the health, social, environmental and FISCAL benefits this infrastructure can bring when done properly. That doesn't matter at all!

It's all "Facts don't care your feelings" until they upset someone's feelings. Fucking beautiful.

FYI: This bike line is not even the provinces jurisdiction because these paths are being funded by municipal property tax dollars.
 
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