p_xavier
Active Member
Basically a big nothingburger? Moving forward with the first steps is such a way to say to do nothing.
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- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
This part sounds good.....
Then we get this ambitious work plan!
Don't get me wrong, I think this is the 1st time we have a date for launching an RFP.
But we don't have a date for the RFP closing!
We also don't even have a 'confirmed' route (they're clearly looking at Havelock, but nothing is signed/settled) , let alone applicable purchase agreements.
This feels to me, too much like a .....we have an election coming and we need to claim to be doing something announcement. I do hope I'm being overly cynical!
Link to the Press Release here: https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-...n-service-in-the-toronto-to-quebec-city-.html
In the backgrounder, they still don't get specific about the work beginning this year.
Link to the backgrounder: https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-...l-in-the-toronto-to-quebec-city-corridor.html
Allandale25
Senior Member
RFP this Fall
Segments
Segments
roger1818
Senior Member
I do agree that dwelling on what VIA was able to do in the past isn't always relevant (conditions change).
Any improvement made east of Coteau (or west of Brockville) would also improve travel times for trains via Cornwall, thus it cannot be used to justify detouring Toronto-Montreal trains via Ottawa. HFR works because it creates a shorter route between Ottawa and Toronto and because it is on dedicated tracks, the reliability and on time performance will be much better (even if the Montreal-Toronto travel times don't improve significantly from the status quo).
I question the feasibility of that. Don't forget that getting in and out of Central Station to/from the west is very slow because of all the curves and 63 of the 187 km will still be on shared track. The current travel time from Montreal to Coteau is 59 minutes, and decreasing that significantly won't be easy. They could potentially shorten the entire route a bit and reduce the amount of shared track by running parallel to CP's Winchester Sub (if an agreement with CP can be made), but I still don't see your travel time being easily obtained without significant expense upgrading tracks in central Montreal.
I agree. Resurrecting the old M&O line has little benefit since VIA now owns the Alexandria Sub.
It currently takes about 20 minutes to travel the 16 km to Fallowfield. Part of that is slowing for the station, but part of it is also the twists and turns getting out of Ottawa. Similar to the approach to Montreal, straightening the track inside city limits to fix that is going to be EXPENSIVE! Even if you could somehow magically cut that in half to 10 minutes, doing the remaining 50 km to Smiths Falls in 14 minutes would require an average speed of 214 km/h.
The current travel time is around 35 minutes, so this might be feasible. The question is, since this leg is such a backtrack, is it worth putting any significant amount of money onto the Brockville Sub? I would rather that money put on finding a more direct route (be it the Havelock Sub, or another route).
I agree. I just don't think detouring Montreal-Toronto trains via Ottawa and Brockville is feasible.
kEiThZ
Superstar
This is pretty low ambition. Their promised reductions translate to about 10 hrs between Toronto and Quebec City and 2 hrs 45 mins between Montreal and Quebec City.
They prioritized electrification over faster service. That seems more like the decision of a government intent on signalling than one thinking of riders.
They prioritized electrification over faster service. That seems more like the decision of a government intent on signalling than one thinking of riders.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I mean the Toronto-Quebec travel time doesn't really make sense to me.
Toronto-Ottawa will be about 3hrs, Ottawa-Montreal probably around 1.5hrs, and Montreal-Quebec at 2.75hrs, for a total of 7.25hrs. Even with a small layover in Montreal theoretically, how do you get 10hrs for end-to-end?
Ultimately Toronto-Quebec is a fairly low demand route that is a bit long for rail to serve anyway. Most of the utility is in the shorter city pairs.
Toronto-Ottawa in 3hrs would be huge for most people in Ontario, for example.
The Toronto-Montreal travel time continues to be disappointing, but it is still a not insignificant improvement over today.
p_xavier
Active Member
Virtue signalling is the core value of this government.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Reading between the lines. This could mean no through service in Montreal. So...
Toronto-Ottawa 3:15 hrs
Ottawa-Montreal 1:45 hrs
Montreal-Quebec City 2:45 hrs
So maybe 2 hrs for changing stations and pre-boarding?
crs1026
Superstar
^ That low-quality audio echoing through a cavernous, empty building sure reminded me of the days before VIA when CN installed its Da-dah-dah-dahhh sound system at Toronto Union, but wouldn’t let CP use it…. So all the CP trains were announced in the older PA system, which was perfectly unintelligible. Pretty ironic that this first step towards a new age in passenger rail was a recreation of times past.
I kinda suspected that the announcement woukd be this vague. Sounds like the government is getting on with some obvious prerequisites such as indigenous consultation, but no real dollar commitment or sense of urgency. This isure looks like a file that will be milked for photo ops before anything really happens.
- Payl
I kinda suspected that the announcement woukd be this vague. Sounds like the government is getting on with some obvious prerequisites such as indigenous consultation, but no real dollar commitment or sense of urgency. This isure looks like a file that will be milked for photo ops before anything really happens.
- Payl
Northern Light
Superstar
However its divied up, overall travel times listed remain too high.
Never mind TGV; and we all understand practical limits around time and money; but I want to see something tangible...........even its a commitment with a 10 year stretch to get those times down.
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I also want to see a proper plan extending to S/W Ontario as well. Again, this need not be done all at once, but some hard targets on frequency, reliability and speed would be nice.
roger1818
Senior Member
sacred
Active Member
I honestly think the province should do this. The Feds are just so ineffective and slow while provincial transit has actually been gaining steam.
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm fine w/Mx buying the balance of the CN North Mainline to London, so long as we shift that line to a passenger-rail first operation.
Via should probably be the owner of the remaining CN track from London-Chatham.
Beyond that, I would say VIA is probably the better operator for long-distance travel, if travel time is over 2hrs you really want a higher level of comfort and amenity that what you require from a more typical commuter service.
That said, I see no reason VIA can't be contracted to run that service by Mx.
GO rolling stock might make sense for shorter, City-Pair routes like K-W-London and the two services could interleave appropriately.
Whatever, I'm not fussed on the detail, I'm fussed on the outcome.
Better, more frequent, more reliable, faster, passenger rail service throughout the corridor.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
LOL. That's the point of this announcement. They don't want to commit to any of that before the election.
Hard to go west of Union without the Kitchener RER upgrade and the Pearson Transit Hub. If those get sorted out, VIA would run service through Union.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Agreed on all points, but the conclusion I've ended up with is that Metrolinx should probably just take the full North Mainline while VIA rebrands the southern corridor as an express service.