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OBRY travels right beside the Caledon Ski Club. There's also Kelso :)

I mean I also thought about these on the Orangeville Line to Brampton GO but there just isnt the population over there yet.

Richmond Hill Line to RHC would really be the best imo.

Although thinking outside of Toronto other potentials:

1. Ontario Nothern Railway
2. Vancouver Island Railway
3. Halifax commuter train
 
My favourite option for what to do with the RDCs is still what VIA had actually planned to do with them: run a standalone RDC service on the London-Kitchener-Toronto corridor and reroute the loco-hauled trains from Sarnia via Brantford. This would have cut more than an hour off the Sarnia-Toronto journey time.

Diagrams I made of the service patterns described in the 2016 corporate plan:

"Current" services (2016)
via_plan0-jpg.86889


"Year 1" services (proposed for 2017):
via_plan1-jpg.86890


The only part of the plan which was actually achieved was the extra service between Toronto and Ottawa.
 
My favourite option for what to do with the RDCs is still what VIA had actually planned to do with them: run a standalone RDC service on the London-Kitchener-Toronto corridor and reroute the loco-hauled trains from Sarnia via Brantford. This would have cut more than an hour off the Sarnia-Toronto journey time.

Diagrams I made of the service patterns described in the 2016 corporate plan:

"Current" services (2016)
via_plan0-jpg.86889


"Year 1" services (proposed for 2017):
via_plan1-jpg.86890


The only part of the plan which was actually achieved was the extra service between Toronto and Ottawa.

As a Sarnia boy who moved to Toronto at 18, and had to take that train before I got a car, I agree completely! They used to have a Bradford routing and cut it and the train ride got significantly longer.
 
My favourite option for what to do with the RDCs is still what VIA had actually planned to do with them: run a standalone RDC service on the London-Kitchener-Toronto corridor and reroute the loco-hauled trains from Sarnia via Brantford. This would have cut more than an hour off the Sarnia-Toronto journey time.

Diagrams I made of the service patterns described in the 2016 corporate plan:

"Current" services (2016)
via_plan0-jpg.86889


"Year 1" services (proposed for 2017):
via_plan1-jpg.86890


The only part of the plan which was actually achieved was the extra service between Toronto and Ottawa.
One idea I've toyed with is to interleave the lines from Sarnia and Windsor through London. Essential most trains leaving Sarnia and Windsor travel the direct London to Toronto route but some travel the London-Kitchener-Toronto route.
 
One idea I've toyed with is to interleave the lines from Sarnia and Windsor through London. Essential most trains leaving Sarnia and Windsor travel the direct London to Toronto route but some travel the London-Kitchener-Toronto route.

That makes sense, though to have "most" trains from Sarnia going via Brantford and "some" via Kitchener you'd need a minimum of 3 trains, which is 3 times more than we currently have...
 
My favourite option for what to do with the RDCs is still what VIA had actually planned to do with them: run a standalone RDC service on the London-Kitchener-Toronto corridor and reroute the loco-hauled trains from Sarnia via Brantford. This would have cut more than an hour off the Sarnia-Toronto journey time.

Diagrams I made of the service patterns described in the 2016 corporate plan:

"Current" services (2016)
via_plan0-jpg.86889


"Year 1" services (proposed for 2017):
via_plan1-jpg.86890


The only part of the plan which was actually achieved was the extra service between Toronto and Ottawa.

I have 2 requests. (I may have more eventually...)

1) Can you show what the proposed HFR look like?

2) Can you do this for the whole Via system?
 
I have 2 requests. (I may have more eventually...)

1) Can you show what the proposed HFR look like?

2) Can you do this for the whole Via system?

2) The Corridor is pretty much the whole VIA system. The rest of the network has only a single train per day or less, so my service map would just be the same as the ordinary network map.

1) There aren't yet any specifics on the service under HFR, so it would have to be based on my own fantasy service patterns. If you'd asked a couple weeks ago I'd probably have done it, but now my summer holiday is ending so I probably won't get around to it.
 
1) Can you show what the proposed HFR look like?

There aren't yet any specifics on the service under HFR, so it would have to be based on my own fantasy service patterns.

Supposedly, 15 trains per day on Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal and 18 trains per day on Montreal-Quebec. Based on this article:


I'm guesssing that Kingston-Toronto, Kingston-Ottawa and Kingston-Montreal will all be at 4-6.

Out of curiosity what did you use to draw those line diagrams?

2) Can you do this for the whole Via system?

There is really no point. The scales are different with every line outside the Corridor being less than daily.
 
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2) The Corridor is pretty much the whole VIA system. The rest of the network has only a single train per day or less, so my service map would just be the same as the ordinary network map.

1) There aren't yet any specifics on the service under HFR, so it would have to be based on my own fantasy service patterns. If you'd asked a couple weeks ago I'd probably have done it, but now my summer holiday is ending so I probably won't get around to it.

1) I know, and that is kinda the point. If it were drawn on a weekly basis, it would show just how horrible anywhere outside the Corridor really is

2) See below

Supposedly, 15 trains per day on Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal and 18 trains per day on Montreal-Quebec. Based on this article:


I'm guessing that Kingston-Toronto, Kingston-Ottawa and Kingston-Montreal will all be at 4-6.

Out of curiosity what did you use to draw those line diagrams?



There is really no point. The scales are different with every line outside the Corridor being less than daily.


See above for it.
 
TY for your wonderful contributions, as always!.

@Urban Sky Thoughts?
My apologies for the late reply, but I hope you will accept the following as a valid excuse:

A few trains are being reinstated in September, including:

Train 71 (Toronto-Windsor, 6:45 departure)
Train 78 (Windsor-Toronto, 21:51 arrival)

Which finally makes it possible to travel to parts of Western Ontario for a day trip without a car (with new connecting buses at Woodstock for Tillsonburg and at London for Strathroy and Sarna). Greyhound suspended its entire network, with only Coach Canada/Megabus, GO Transit, Ontario Northland and TOK (Can-Ar) running intercity coach service in the province.

A few more trips to and from Ottawa and Montreal as well. There's no PDF schedule yet, but you can start booking trips on the restored trains.
The PDF schedules have been uploaded in the meanwhile [permalink] and as of September 1, the following service will be offered across the Corridor (all new departures are highlighted in bold):
  • Quebec-Montreal (and v.v.)
    • leaving QBEC at 08:00 (#35), 15:00 (#39) and 17:45 (#29)
    • leaving MTRL at 08:56 (#22), 12:45 (#24) and 18:25 (#28)
  • Montreal-Ottawa (and v.v.)
    • leaving MTRL at 09:00 (#633), 12:04 (#35) and 18:50 (#39)
    • leaving OTTW at 06:30 (#22), 10:15 (#24) and 16:15 (#28)
  • Montreal-Toronto (and v.v.)
    • leaving MTRL at 08:55 (#63), 11:05* (#65), 13:28 (#67) and 18:30 (#669)
    • leaving TRTO at 08:35 (#62), 11:32 (#64), 15:15 (#66) and 17:02* (#68)
  • Ottawa-Toronto (and v.v.)
    • leaving OTTW at 08:40 (#643), 11:40 (#53), 15:23* (#55) and 18:26 (#59)
    • leaving TRTO at 08:35 (#52), 12:17 (#42), 15:32* (#46) and 18:40 (#48)
  • Toronto-Windsor (and v.v.)
    • leaving TRTO at 06:45 (#71) and 17:30 (#75)
    • leaving WDON at 09:05 (#72) and 17:45 (#78)
  • Toronto-Sarnia (and v.v.)
    • leaving TRTO at 17:40 (#84)
    • leaving SARN at 06:10 (#87)
Note: all trains to operate daily as of September 1 (except for trains marked with an asterisk, which will only operate as of September 11 and on Mondays, Fridays and Sundays only).

The last few weeks have been insanely busy, but I believe that the relentless efforts in making the case for increased service and finalizing and implementing above schedule is finally providing the corridor again with a schedule which is somewhat usable - for the first time since mid-March...


***

Before I am able to respond to the analysis made by @reaperexpress, would it be possible to share your *.kmz file?

As for calculating more realistic travel times, you will find many assumptions and parameters in my Master Thesis (esp. Chapters 5 and 6).

I will more than gladly model travel times for your alignments, but I can unfortunately only use assumptions and data other people provide to me, as I have to minimize the risk that my assumptions are misinterpreted as me sharing any internal HFR plans...
 
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I will more than gladly model travel times for your alignments, but I can unfortunately only use assumptions and data other people provide to me, as I have to minimize the risk that my assumptions are misinterpreted as me sharing any internal HFR plans...

There's an old saying..... "Be careful what you ask for" ;-)

As it happens, this past week I've had to put my feet up for a few days, which left me at the keyboard looking for something to fill the time.

Using milepost data from an old CP employee timetable, and using Google Earth to measure distances, I compiled a granular view of the Glen Tay - Kaladar section of the line, broken into tangent and curve segments. That gave me a database to model different timings.

On the basis of raw eyeball measurement, I arbitrarily assigned notional baseline speeds to each segment, with the tightest curves good for 50 mph and the tangent stretches good for up to 95mph. (Sorry - I used Imperial not metric simply to keep things aligned to the historical milepost and speed restriction data). I kept my baseline assumptions about tangent speeds conservative, to try to inject some reality... a train coming out of a 50 mph curve is not going to accelerate to 95 mph in the length of a short tangent section.

This gave me a baseline end-to-end timing for the 46.3 miles of line from Glen Tay to Kaladar of 43.1 minutes.

(For comparison, the best-ever timing of a CP passenger train, using Budd RDC's, was 62 minutes Kaladar to Perth, with one scheduled stop and one flag stop. Winter 1965-66. But CP did not maintain track to 95 mph on tangent, which I assumed....so my speedier baseline is likely good enough for discussion purposes )

Then I went back and made arbitrary assumptions about a hypothetical speed improvement (which could be achieved by track changes, or by tilting, or any other means) which would bring minimum speed on the tightest curves to 75 mph. I retained 95 mph as the top tangent speed, but upgraded speed on short tangent sections recognizing that trains need not slow down as much for curves. This got my timing down to 35.5 minutes.

My spreadsheet with all the data can be accessed at

I would stress that everything other than the timetable mileages is just my subjective guesswork, and is totally imprecise. I was able to keep the cumulative measurement in the distances to about .14 miles over 46.3 mi, which is as good as one can get using Google.

Pasted below is the very high level result of my model.

The points I would make are
a) the difference between my "Baseline" scenario and my "significantly improved" scenario is probably at least $250M in cost for only 7.6 minutes of time saved. There will have to be a very substantial speed premium gained for each and every possible improvement, or investors may not see enough incentive to bother about trip time. This remains my core reservation about HFR.
b) Bringing the line to a consistent 95mph throughout would reduce timings by another 6.3 minutes - note that geography makes this a totally unlikely end point that would probably cost an oodle in construction and land acquisition.
c) It's clear that without achieving some substantial sections of 95+ running, this line will remain slow (ish...46 in 43 ain't VIA's worst track).

@UrbanSky, I'd love your input - but if this treads a little too closely to things for comfort, I'm sure that others can play with the spreadsheet. Just insert whatever speeds you want to examine.

- Paul

Screen Shot 2020-08-31 at 10.23.36 AM.png
 
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