[ssiguy2]

I can only assume you are kidding.

London is arguably the 3rd most important city in the province as is a major government, employment, education, health, transportation, shopping, and entertainment centre. Unlike KW or Hamilton, London really is a regional centre as those 2 cities are increasingly just becoming Toronto suburbs. London will never be part of the Toronto urban blob as it is very much an independent regional centre.. London is the "go-to'" place for people in Lam/CK/Ox/Elgin/Perth/Huron and , of course. Middlesex counties. That represents well over a million people...………..bigger than Nova Scotia.

You are looking at things from a Toronto-centric point of view where you assume that everyone going anywhere must be going to Toronto. For people's EVERYDAY urban needs people ALWAYS go to London and very RARELY Toronto. Outside of entertainment and the big city vibe, the reality is that there is very little in Toronto that you can't get in London and with Toronto traffic and London's rapid growth, that trend will increase.

 

[crs1026]

@ViveleCanada why does anyone need to go to London, ON for anything? Maybe university students.

I'm really pushing the limits of self-restraint in responding to this question.

Population of 382,000; biggest hospitals in southwest Ontario; regional center for courts, government offices and services; substantial industrial base; large employers in the services and tech business sectors. Prime population offload center for the GTA and (with better transportation ties) viable bedroom community offering GTA quality lifestyle with less density or sprawl. Cultural and sports center.

Most importantly - Big six-lane highway runs just south of town that is awfully full of vehicles and can't absorb much more traffic. Airport that feeds into Pearson, consuming apron slots there that are better used for other routes, viable distance for surface link from Pearson.

Bottom line: a huge number of people already do travel in and out of London, and the potential number of such people can be expected to grow further.

Sorry if these folks didn't check with you to see if their reason for going to London meets your standards, but they are out there already.

The issue is whether more highways and more flights are the right way to serve their needs. The potential market share for rail, and the cost savings if they don't travel by car or air, is what this is about.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm really pushing the limits of self-restraint in responding to this question.

Population of 382,000; biggest hospitals in southwest Ontario; regional center for courts, government offices and services; substantial industrial base; large employers in the services and tech business sectors. Prime population offload center for the GTA and (with better transportation ties) viable bedroom community offering GTA quality lifestyle with less density or sprawl. Cultural and sports center.

Most importantly - Big six-lane highway runs just south of town that is awfully full of vehicles and can't absorb much more traffic. Airport that feeds into Pearson, consuming apron slots there that are better used for other routes, viable distance for surface link from Pearson.

Bottom line: a huge number of people already do travel in and out of London, and the potential number of such people can be expected to grow further.

Sorry if these folks didn't check with you to see if their reason for going to London meets your standards, but they are out there already.

The issue is whether more highways and more flights are the right way to serve their needs. The potential market share for rail, and the cost savings if they don't travel by car or air, is what this is about.

- Paul

All good points and info.

 

[ssiguy2]

London is the centre of SWO, and hence has all the services that reflects that need. Ask ANYONE in Ontario what they consider SWO's most important and regional city and it would be completely unanimous...……...London. Saying any place other than London would be enough to get you committed. Even 95% of Windsorites would admit, very begrudgingly, that it's London.

 

[KevinT]

Ask ANYONE in Ontario what they consider SWO's most important and regional city and it would be completely unanimous...……...London.

Dramatize much? As someone born, raised, and risiding in Kitchener for all of my close to 50 years, I have never gone to London for anything other than a single specialist medical appointment and a few concerts I attended with some London-based friends. (Also, contrary to the 'KW is a Toronto bedroom community' sentiments expressed in other posts above, none of my family or friends are employed in Toronto. Sorry.)

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Frankly KW being described as a bedroom community IS as bad as dismissing London as totally as above...

That said, yes, KW is FAR more in Toronto's sphere of influence than London, and it is one of those interesting (and mostly cultural, rather than practical) oddities that KW just doesn't have much as all to do with London. My, admittedly dated, experience is that Hamilton is a far more relevant place to KW residents than London.

 

[mdrejhon]

The elephant in the room -- Ottawa -- my home town of birth. The answers you get from an Ottawan versus Windsorite will be very different on what constitutes the 3 most important cities in Ontario.

Nearly all Ottawans tend to be unamious that Ottawa (capital of Canaduh) and Toronto (that gigantic metro) is in the top 3 most important Ontario cities. What constitutes the 3rd most important Ontario city, is, a matter of contentious debate with an Ottawan.

 

[littlewill1166]

I'm really hoping that VIA replaces the carbon paper system they have now for buying food and drinks on trains with this. Also, I have a feeling that the crew onboard trains aren't going to be happy about this since they probably aren't going to earn as much in tips anymore.

P.S. VIA is using paper straws now.

 

[p_xavier]

View attachment 207976
I'm really hoping that VIA replaces the carbon paper system they have now for buying food and drinks on trains with this. Also, I have a feeling that the crew onboard trains aren't going to be happy about this since they probably aren't going to earn as much in tips anymore.

P.S. VIA is using paper straws now.

Good thing. Probably won't happen on long haul trains though.

 

[smallspy]

View attachment 207976
I'm really hoping that VIA replaces the carbon paper system they have now for buying food and drinks on trains with this. Also, I have a feeling that the crew onboard trains aren't going to be happy about this since they probably aren't going to earn as much in tips anymore.

That's the plan. Much like the airlines, the trains will be cashless. Each crew will have a couple of electronic devices for taking payments.

Good thing. Probably won't happen on long haul trains though.

It probably will, by using the same terminals/systems that the airlines use.

Dan

 

[mdrejhon]

Good thing. Probably won't happen on long haul trains though.

Satellite-authorized VISA/MC/Interac is no longer expensive -- standalone equipment for this is now reasonably cheap and satellite transaction cost is only pennies. Even without satellite Internet, the most expensive Iridium/etc data costs have fallen to 1 to 5 cents per satellite-authorized VISA/MC/Interac transaction. Costs are rapidly falling to below a penny per transaction if you tie-it-in to an existing satellite Internet instead, but even that is optional.

It's just details in a deployment at this stage.

Source: I historically worked in the fintech industry, and have experience with Iridium satellite transmissions.

 

[treplow]

Glad Via is finally modernizing their on board payment system (always felt guilty making the attendant go through the whole carbon paper song and dance for a $1.50 can of Coke), but find it odd that Interac won't be accepted. Don't debit purchases usually cost the vendor less in transaction fees than Visa/Mastercard/Amex?

 

[ssiguy2]

Any VIA improvements in Southern Ontario must include London. London is the 4th busiest VIA station on the network and the VIA corridors and 401/402/403 all merge there. Anyone going to Detroit or Chicago must also pass thru London.

HSR never made any sense and never had a chance of being built but then neither does the Mon/Ott/Tor route. That doesn't mean however that SWO doesn't need much faster and more frequent VIA service. The most cost effective way to improve service and speed is to build the Brantford By-pass, bribe CN/CP to get off the corridor, build VIA passing stretches, and run Union-London express trains.

I remember in the 1980s when I lived in Toronto and getting to London was an easy and fast affair. The trains were frequent but most importantly there were Union-London express trains. No stops in between just a fast and pleasant trip and then the trains would continue to Windsor only making one stop in Chatham. Greatly improving VIA service to SWO does not have to be a hyper expensive endeavour but saying so does make for a good political excuse for VIA, Ottawa, and QP to write-off the proposal as being too expensive.

 

[smallspy]

Glad Via is finally modernizing their on board payment system (always felt guilty making the attendant go through the whole carbon paper song and dance for a $1.50 can of Coke), but find it odd that Interac won't be accepted. Don't debit purchases usually cost the vendor less in transaction fees than Visa/Mastercard/Amex?

The terminals that the airlines use store all transactional data until the flight lands/the handset gets returned to its cradle, and only at that point do they communicate and authorize the transactions. Because debit/Interac require a live link to the banks to ensure that sufficient funds exist to complete the transaction, they can't be used.

It sounds like VIA will be using this same off-the-shelf product to complete their on-board transactions, so the same restrictions will apply.

Dan

 

[robmausser]

Any VIA improvements in Southern Ontario must include London. London is the 4th busiest VIA station on the network and the VIA corridors and 401/402/403 all merge there. Anyone going to Detroit or Chicago must also pass thru London.

HSR never made any sense and never had a chance of being built but then neither does the Mon/Ott/Tor route. That doesn't mean however that SWO doesn't need much faster and more frequent VIA service. The most cost effective way to improve service and speed is to build the Brantford By-pass, bribe CN/CP to get off the corridor, build VIA passing stretches, and run Union-London express trains.

I remember in the 1980s when I lived in Toronto and getting to London was an easy and fast affair. The trains were frequent but most importantly there were Union-London express trains. No stops in between just a fast and pleasant trip and then the trains would continue to Windsor only making one stop in Chatham. Greatly improving VIA service to SWO does not have to be a hyper expensive endeavour but saying so does make for a good political excuse for VIA, Ottawa, and QP to write-off the proposal as being too expensive.

Well I agree with your statement about London being a hub that needs better service, I vehemently disagree about your methodology.

The best plan in my opinion is to purchase the GEXR track from CN, upgrade the track to 177kmh service and add sidings, and have an equivalent of the VIA HFR along the GEXR corridor from London, Kitchener, Brampton, Pearson, Union.

Not only would trying to get CN/CP off of their mainlines be a complete non-starter, bypassing Kitchener, Brampton and Pearson would be asinine, even for express service.