Urban Sky
Senior Member
This is my report from my first-ever trip on a Venture train (668@2023-12-01, so exactly the route Hoang was enquiring about):
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- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
smallspy
Senior Member
Not only that, but their base assumptions about the equipment are and have been patently wrong the whole time.
Siemens Venture cars are lighter? No, they weigh more than LRCs and HEP cars.
They are shorter? Most LRC trainsets operate with 4 coaches and a locomotive, which, last I checked, was shorter than the 5 Venture cars and 1 Charger loco that the Siemens sets operate as.
Dan
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Their whole assumption is based on an incident at a single crossing.
Trackside_Treasure
Active Member
Since it's still before the Quebec Superior Court, and Transport Canada as regulator, CN's Crossing Supplement that imposed speed reductions for VIA Ventures at constant-warning technology/Grade-Crossing Predictor-equipped crossings on all CN subdivisions in VIA's Corridor is becoming an engrossing microcosm in VIA's history.
We now know that the Crossing Supplement was based on CN's concerns about GCP short warning times of <32-axle passenger trains in the US dating back to 2004, the Loss of Shunt Committee testing in Michigan that led to the publication of its White Paper and subsequent adoption of On-Board Shunt Enhancers in the US, and loss-of-shunt issues of VIA trains on CN's Drummondville Sub in March, 2024.
In June and September, 2024 VIA requested permission from CN to operate two Venture trains in Southwest Ontario. For the first, CN issued GBO's requiring protection of GCP-equipped crossings. For the second, VIA obviated that need by tacking two HEP cars on the tail-end of a Venture consist. CN executives believed those were the only two instances in which Ventures operated outside of the Quebec City-Montreal-Ottawa lanes which were the subject of some ongoing testing by CN.
In reality, VIA had been operating west of Montreal and Ottawa, with Montreal-Ottawa service having begun on November 8, 2022, expanding to Quebec City, then adding Ottawa-Toronto service beginning on September 21, 2023. Once CN heard that VIA wanted to begin operation west of Toronto (initiated on October 7, 2024) CN prepared to issue the first iteration of its [current] Crossing Supplement that only applied to the Chatham, Dundas, Guelph, Halton and Strathroy Subs. CN execs believed it would not be immediately required as CN execs believed the SW Ontario service would not debut until the end of 2024. Hurriedly, they expanded the Supplement to cover the entire Corridor and despite claims that VIA had been involved in its creation, hurriedly enacted it and notified VIA at that time.
Based on now-available emails, high-level CN executives were completely oblivious to the fact that these same crossings on their Corridor subdivisions were being crossed by these same Venture trains for over a year already.
We now know that the Crossing Supplement was based on CN's concerns about GCP short warning times of <32-axle passenger trains in the US dating back to 2004, the Loss of Shunt Committee testing in Michigan that led to the publication of its White Paper and subsequent adoption of On-Board Shunt Enhancers in the US, and loss-of-shunt issues of VIA trains on CN's Drummondville Sub in March, 2024.
In June and September, 2024 VIA requested permission from CN to operate two Venture trains in Southwest Ontario. For the first, CN issued GBO's requiring protection of GCP-equipped crossings. For the second, VIA obviated that need by tacking two HEP cars on the tail-end of a Venture consist. CN executives believed those were the only two instances in which Ventures operated outside of the Quebec City-Montreal-Ottawa lanes which were the subject of some ongoing testing by CN.
In reality, VIA had been operating west of Montreal and Ottawa, with Montreal-Ottawa service having begun on November 8, 2022, expanding to Quebec City, then adding Ottawa-Toronto service beginning on September 21, 2023. Once CN heard that VIA wanted to begin operation west of Toronto (initiated on October 7, 2024) CN prepared to issue the first iteration of its [current] Crossing Supplement that only applied to the Chatham, Dundas, Guelph, Halton and Strathroy Subs. CN execs believed it would not be immediately required as CN execs believed the SW Ontario service would not debut until the end of 2024. Hurriedly, they expanded the Supplement to cover the entire Corridor and despite claims that VIA had been involved in its creation, hurriedly enacted it and notified VIA at that time.
Based on now-available emails, high-level CN executives were completely oblivious to the fact that these same crossings on their Corridor subdivisions were being crossed by these same Venture trains for over a year already.
crs1026
Superstar
Considering that VIA has received additional Venture trainsets since this issue began, and considering that these sets are out there (well, mostly) every day... the database of discrete activations or non-activations has grown significantly. I wonder what this expanded experience base shows. Have non-activations actually been happening at some frequency?
- Paul
Trackside_Treasure
Active Member
That's the weird thing, Paul. Been looking for the smoking-gun incidents since last October. Finding precious little evidence if any. CN said, "Although the testing completed by CN [ beginning Oct 31, 2024 on multiple Subs] only revealed one short warning time (27 seconds instead of 30), CN remains concerned about the poor shunting profiles demonstrated by VIA Venture trains with less than 32 axles." This is from the letter sent from CN to Transport Canada. This and one incident during testing on the CN Drummondville Sub one year ago.
Trackside_Treasure
Active Member
Up-to-date chart of VIA Siemens Venture trainset availability for last four months. Red cells are not observed in service for 2 or 3 weeks, green is not in service yet.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
You might as well make half of the sheet red.
dowlingm
Senior Member
VIA Train 1 is currently on the Metrolinx Newmarket heading south and just passed St Clair. Appears to have been turned back due to track obstructions between Toronto and Washago (but obviously nothing on VIA site says that - was a post someone made on Bluesky)
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I guess they don't have permission to use the CP tracks to get to Sudbury?
dowlingm
Senior Member
Strictly speaking they do use CP part of the way in one direction, but i don’t know how far down the contingency list things would have to go before THAT happened. Would need a CP pilot all the way to Parry Sound and at present the train is facing the wrong way to access CP MacTier anyway.
Krypto98
Active Member
Mactier sub is blocked by fallen trees anyways and the Bala sub has the same issue with a few disabled freight trains
lenaitch
Senior Member
The amount of ice damage, power outages and flooding through central Ontario is extensive.
micheal_can
Senior Member
The Canadian has returned to Union as there were trees down along the rails on both the Bala and Mactier Subdivisions.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Any idea when the next departure will be? Where is #2?
And inconvienced customers won't receive compensation