[nfitz]

Without wanting to drag this discussion too far off topic,

There's a solution to that problem.

We used PCCs in Toronto until 1995.

TTC has had regular summer weekend PCC operation on the 509 Harbourfront as recently as 2017. https://dailyhive.com/toronto/vintage-ttc-streetcar-2017

 

[T3G]

There's a solution to that problem.

TTC has had regular summer weekend PCC operation on the 509 Harbourfront as recently as 2017. https://dailyhive.com/toronto/vintage-ttc-streetcar-2017

I was talking about their use in daily service, not special trips of the historical fleet.

Less than 10 years ago I was on a PCC car on Carlton. It was during rush hour, and I presumed they had a few old cars for when extra are needed. Or was I dreaming?

If you were, it would have been one of 2 historical vehicles that were retained on transit property after 1995. I'm not sure why they would have been brought out during rush hour of all times, but stranger things have happened.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

I was talking about their use in daily service, not special trips of the historical fleet.


If you were, it would have been one of 2 historical vehicles that were retained on transit property after 1995. I'm not sure why they would have been brought out during rush hour of all times, but stranger things have happened.

Might have just been because of some of the unreliable ALRVs being out of service and they needed more streetcars.

 

[nfitz]

Might have just been because of some of the unreliable ALRVs being out of service and they needed more streetcars.

No.

Though in addition to the daily weekend service on 509, the PCCs did do the occasional low-key in-service special event, and it could have run in-service going to or fro from such an event.

 

[nfitz]

While noting that we are a bit off topic here..............

There are solutions for that.

 

[DSCToronto]

No.

Though in addition to the daily weekend service on 509, the PCCs did do the occasional low-key in-service special event, and it could have run in-service going to or fro from such an event.

I think you mean this short-lived period?

 

[nfitz]

I think you mean this short-lived period?

? Three board periods. That's from 2009. It happened regularly most summers for years.

I wouldn't be surprised if they return to regular and irregular service once they put on the new pantographs.

 

[Mihairokov]

Had an interesting trip eavesdropping some loud TTC employees on a bus earlier. We were on a 504D replacement bus and when our bus didn't stop on the SW corner of Queen/Broadview, so they could presumably transfer to a 503, they went to the driver and asked why not, and when the driver explained that the bus instead stops on the NE corner (I guess to prevent blocking streetcars on Queen) they relinquished and said these sorts of decisions are why people don't like the TTC

 

[evandyk]

I think it's because the stop is close to the intersection, and they'd have to make a left hand turn from the right hand curb lane. The streetcars will happily stop in the left lane and let you out, but they'll never do that with a bus (presumably because drivers are not technically obligated to stop when a bus opens its doors like they are with the streetcars).

 

[T3G]

That bend by the costo and then Don mills again is pretty extreme for a train. It’s gonna be super slow moving and hopefully doesn’t derail like the streetcars do at Chruch and King

Can you explain what you mean by this? Is there some kind of shadow pandemic of streetcars derailing at King and Church that no one knows about?

 

[DSCToronto]

Can you explain what you mean by this? Is there some kind of shadow pandemic of streetcars derailing at King and Church that no one knows about?

There were a couple of derailments at King and Church. The intersection was overdue for renewal and it was done earlier this year

 

[CapitalSeven]

That nonsensical, I mean mischievous, post about extreme bends has rattled around in a couple of threads. For perspective, the inner curves at King and Church are about 44 feet in radius. The perilous Kostco Killer Kurve would appear to be over 600 feet according to the EA plans. I think the trains will make it.

 

[reaperexpress]

New motion from Councillor Saxe asking Staff to investigate allowing streetcars to insert transit phases before left turn phases on Spadina, to be discussed at the Infrastructure committee tomorrow:

https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2025.IE25.12

 

[Northern Light]

New motion from Councillor Saxe asking Staff to investigate allowing streetcars to insert transit phases before left turn phases on Spadina, to be discussed at the Infrastructure committee tomorrow:

https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2025.IE25.12

Posted on the previous page with discussion.

(but good reminder)

 

[reaperexpress]

Posted on the previous page with discussion.

(but good reminder)

Oops sorry, I completely missed that. This does includes the button to provide comments which the previous link did not, so at least I did accidentally contribute something useful.

Councillor Saxe with a letter/motion to next week's Infrastructure and Environment Ctte seeking to speed up the SpadinaLRT

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-259437.pdf

From the above:
View attachment 690186

Fine, as far as it goes.

But the request should have included removing some left turn permissions entirely, removing the u-turn at Nassau and closing that vehicle crossing and consideration for eliminating up to 5 total stops. (2 NB, 3SB )

I agree that removing some left turn movements is key to speeding up the streetcar, but Nassau is not the issue. On the contrary, it's part of the solution.

With phase insertion (as Councillor Saxe is presumably proposing), the U-turn and left-turn phases at minor intersections would have negligible impacts on streetcars since they'd get an inserted streetcar phase to skip ahead of it if necessary. The bigger issue is at the major intersections (King, Queen, Dundas, College) where it takes 30+ seconds for the streetcar to cross the intersection due to the track switches. Inserting a 30-second streetcar phase into a 90-second cycle would decimate the intersection's capacity and create lots of delays for east-west streetcar lines. A better solution for those intersections is to eliminate left turns entirely, with drivers redirected elsewhere.

For example, we could eliminate north-south left turns at Spadina & College by redirecting northbound left-turning drivers to loop around Spadina Crescent, and southbound left-turning drivers doing a U-turn at Nassau.

If you really want to do this right, have the signal system allow a streetcar-only movement phase both before the left-turn phase for cars, but also add a second one for streetcars after the end of the green signal phase for cars going north/south on Spadina, so there would be two opportunities for streetcars to move through the intersection on each cycle, one at the beginning and one at the end.

Yes I assume the motion is talking about inserting streetcar phases, not just changing the default order. Simply changing the order of the phases would make no difference to streetcar delay.

For the opportunity at the end of the north-south phase you don't need a separate phase, since streetcars already get a green during the north-south phase anyway. You just need to extend that phase if there's a streetcar approaching, which is already what the signals do at minor intersections along Spadina.