[gabe]

Not to derail this anymore than it already is but it is less about nowhere to go and others not wanting to go.

The homeless woman at the building I manage has mental health issues. She refuses to go to shelters and even if she did not they would reject her for drug use. She unfortunately is an EDP.

Other places like the Allen Garden Encampments or the Clarence Square Encampments have squatters who refuse to leave. For one reason or another they refuse to leave and get violent when you try to force them out.

The issue is optics. There are too many bleeding hearts out there that claim arresting these individuals is a violation of their rights. For far too long, people have been hiding behind the guise of rights violations and disabilities which only makes this situation worse.

People love to say it is a violation of their rights when homeless persons are forced to seek treatment or shelter but yet they also complain when nothing is done. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Similar situation with the migrants. They don't want to move out of the hotels we put them in. My friend works at a hotel that has asylum seekers, they have caused tens of thousands of dollars in damages, you and i and every other taxpayer will have to pay for.

Even though crime is down, people still feel uneasy on the TTC. It's become a makeshift homeless shelter on wheels.

TTC data shows violence has eased. So why do riders feel uneasy?

As the TTC gets a grip on violence, it’s struggling with an issue out of its control that’s changed the face of the transit system: housing.

www.thestar.com

 

[turbanplanner]

If the person is a potential harm to themselves or to others, and are unable to care for themselves can result in being put on a form and be held against your will.

The fact that they are not coherent and using drugs should be enough reason to violate their rights and get them treatment. Even if it's against their will.

We can talk about this when people can get VOLUNTARY treatment. If you can't help the people ASKING for help, what sort of orwellian shit will go on when you force those who don't?

 

[Bordercollie]

We can talk about this when people can get VOLUNTARY treatment. If you can't help the people ASKING for help, what sort of orwellian shit will go on when you force those who don't?

Do you think that by "kindly" asking these people to get help is going to convince them?

Hello fellow human who chooses to do drugs, has one or multiple mental health issues and chooses to be homeless, would you like to go to a shelter and receive assistance?

What do you think the outcome of those conversations would be?

 

[Richard White]

Do you think that by "kindly" asking these people to get help is going to convince them?

Hello fellow human who chooses to do drugs, has one or multiple mental health issues and chooses to be homeless, would you like to go to a shelter and receive assistance?

What do you think the outcome of those conversations would be?

You would get your ass handed to you.

I've had this conversation with homeless individuals with mental health and substance abuse issues. When you approach them they try to fight you because of their distorted reality.

 

[Bordercollie]

You would get your ass handed to you.

I've had this conversation with homeless individuals with mental health and substance abuse issues. When you approach them they try to fight you because of their distorted reality.

Exactly. These people need help. If not voluntarily then non voluntarily.

 

[Richard White]

Exactly. These people need help. If not voluntarily then non voluntarily.

Correct.

The TTC is not a shelter and shouldn't be used as one.

We need dedicated facilities and stronger legislation to deal with this.

There needs to be a conversation about the limit of people's rights when they are a danger to themselves and others.

There needs to be criteria for forced rehabilitation and treatment over and above a 72 hour hold. Something to say that if a person meets certain criteria they can be held long term.

 

[Bordercollie]

Correct.

The TTC is not a shelter and shouldn't be used as one.

We need dedicated facilities and stronger legislation to deal with this.

There needs to be a conversation about the limit of people's rights when they are a danger to themselves and others.

There needs to be criteria for forced rehabilitation and treatment over and above a 72 hour hold. Something to say that if a person meets certain criteria they can be held long term.

A Form 3 is a legal tool that allows person to be detained for up to 14 days in a psychiatric facility in Ontario. On a Form 3, a person is an "involuntary patient" and they are not allowed to leave the hospital.

Once the Form 3 expires, a physician can decide to issue another form to keep the person at the hospital for longer. Or they may allow the form to lapse and the person may be free to go.

If a person's condition improves and they no longer present a risk to themselves or others, they may be discharged - even if the Form 3 has not expired.

 

[Richard White]

Rather than derail this thread further I have created a specific one here:

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/homelessness-on-gta-transit-catch-all.37846/

 

[turbanplanner]

Do you think that by "kindly" asking these people to get help is going to convince them?

Hello fellow human who chooses to do drugs, has one or multiple mental health issues and chooses to be homeless, would you like to go to a shelter and receive assistance?

What do you think the outcome of those conversations would be?

Not every homeless person is a vegetable, there are plenty of people who want to get clean and detox but the wait times if they even get accepted are over 6 months for a very short inpatient treatment! Where are you going to force people who don't want to go, into? Again there isn't even space for the few that want to go to camh etc.

 

[evandyk]

Typical TTC scene. Homeless white guy riding the subway with his shopping cart, eating Jolibee fried chicken, throwing his bones on the floor, and ranting loudly about someone calling him a Paki (which obviously did not happen). Everyone obviously feeling very uncomfortable and staring at their phones.

 

[allengeorge]

Can we please move the above comments to the thread Richard created? It’s important to discuss, but we can separate this line of discussion from others.

 

[SubHuman]

One of the more distinctive and grotesque TTC stops has reopened after being closed off for two or three years. It's the streetcar stop at The Queensway and Parkside, accessible only by a stairway. It looks like covering the old graffiti with gray paint was the only thing that's changed. Here's a link to a YouTube video someone must have made just before it got closed off. The middle landing part of the stairway, frequently used as a toilet by derelicts, had water puddles an inch or more deep on both sides when I took a look at it today. I didn't go up to the track level, but I recall there being a decaying raccoon corpse there for a few weeks in 2020 or 2021. You can briefly see it on the right side of the screen at 3:06 into the video. There's also traffic lights now where the trail crosses Parkside.

 

[drum118]

One of the more distinctive and grotesque TTC stops has reopened after being closed off for two or three years. It's the streetcar stop at The Queensway and Parkside, accessible only by a stairway. It looks like covering the old graffiti with gray paint was the only thing that's changed. Here's a link to a YouTube video someone must have made just before it got closed off. The middle landing part of the stairway, frequently used as a toilet by derelicts, had water puddles an inch or more deep on both sides when I took a look at it today. I didn't go up to the track level, but I recall there being a decaying raccoon corpse there for a few weeks in 2020 or 2021. You can briefly see it on the right side of the screen at 3:06 into the video. There's also traffic lights now where the trail crosses Parkside.
View attachment 547187 View attachment 547188View attachment 547189

I cannot tell you anything about the stairwell since it was closed during all my visits during construction as well after service resumed, but the whole station area was cleaned up along with trees been planted. There are photos of the station in the King-Queensway thread. This station doesn't comply with the OADA requirements and will be interesting to see what happens come December 31, 2025, drop dead date to comply with OADA requirements.

 

[max]

I cannot tell you anything about the stairwell since it was closed during all my visits during construction as well after service resumed, but the whole station area was cleaned up along with trees been planted. There are photos of the station in the King-Queensway thread. This station doesn't comply with the OADA requirements and will be interesting to see what happens come December 31, 2025, drop dead date to comply with OADA requirements.

There really is no simple way to make this stop accessible. Any ramps to the closest signalized intersection will take you back to Glendale where there is already a stop. Anyone looking to access High Park can go one more stop west to Colborne Lodge. Those transfering to the 80 can do so at Windermere or Ellis. I suspect all those alternatives will satisfy AODA however IANAL. Should that not be sufficient and those alternatives are insufficient to satisfy accessibility, the stop can simply be closed, as the transfer traffic to the 80 (an infrequent route) probably doesn't even justify its maintenance in the current form.

 

[drum118]

There really is no simple way to make this stop accessible. Any ramps to the closest signalized intersection will take you back to Glendale where there is already a stop. Anyone looking to access High Park can go one more stop west to Colborne Lodge. Those transfering to the 80 can do so at Windermere or Ellis. I suspect all those alternatives will satisfy AODA however IANAL. Should that not be sufficient and those alternatives are insufficient to satisfy accessibility, the stop can simply be closed, as the transfer traffic to the 80 (an infrequent route) probably doesn't even justify its maintenance in the current form.

A ramp will not cut it since there is a road on either side of the track and even the two elevators will not work without a major rebuilding of the overpass and widening it to allow elevators there in the first place along relocating the stairs. Anyone who lives on/visit Parkside will not use any other stops and will use a different route than the Queensway