[nfitz]

The issue is Bedrock.

The reason the station is the way it is because of the need to tunnel around the bedrock.

Fun fact: Dundas is the shallowest station. It's platforms are closer to ground level than any other.

When the station was being constructed the soil conditions in the area prevented the station from being built any deeper.

It would have been almost impossible to build a connecting passage above the tracks.

That surprises me, as Union subway station is well into the bedrock, which is shallower there than either Dundas at Queen. The subway tunnel as well along Front!

I'm also surprised it's shallower at Dundas than Queen - as generally the overburden layer gets thicker as you go north.

Looking at the geologic data for the 15 Richmond East site, the bedrock is about 10 metres deep at Richmond and Yonge. Up at Gould and Yonge (335 Yonge Street) it is about 15 metres deep.

It would appear that the lack of mezzanine at Dundas was a choice, likely cost-saving. Value engineering strikes again!

If the complaint is legitimate, the bus number, location, and time should be more than sufficient enough. And if the complaint is not legitimate, force them to think a little bit at least, rather than handing them on a silver platter the identification to crucify the driver.

It should be enough, but if one detail (the time or bus number) per haps is slightly wrong, then the wrong driver may be identified. Another piece of data doesn't hurt.

I figured out later, looking at the transit data, that I'd misidentified a driver I'd reported based on time and place, looking at the run data (for the record, it was a compliment, not a complaint).

 

[Richard White]

That surprises me, as Union subway station is well into the bedrock, which is shallower there than either Dundas at Queen. The subway tunnel as well along Front!

I'm also surprised it's shallower at Dundas than Queen - as generally the overburden layer gets thicker as you go north.

Looking at the geologic data for the 15 Richmond East site, the bedrock is about 10 metres deep at Richmond and Yonge. Up at Gould and Yonge (335 Yonge Street) it is about 15 metres deep.

It would appear that the lack of mezzanine at Dundas was a choice, likely cost-saving. Value engineering strikes again!

It surprised me too given that they managed to build a passage there 20 years later.

It could also have been a technological thing at the time. Nobody wants to be blasting away rock in the heart of downtown

 

[Jonny5]

It would appear that the lack of mezzanine at Dundas was a choice, likely cost-saving. Value engineering strikes again!

I don't know all the history in detail, but I recall reading several times about how Yonge & Dundas was considered a quiet backwater of the City in 1954, and on the line as a whole it was a lightly used station for years after the subway opened. It wasn't until about ten years after it opened that area of Yonge started to become a destination, and probably still not another ten years until it really came into its own in the 70's.

I'm guessing planners of the 40's and 50's would be shocked that became a destination over Yonge and College

 

[futurebound]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722420507520508074

It looks amazing. The case study is quite in depth and informative on UX.

Shaban - Senior UX Designer - Toronto

Senior UX designer in Toronto. Research-first, systems-minded, and obsessed with what ships.

shabanmohammed.com

The TTC already has a pretty decent design for bus screens, they just haven't gotten around to implementing it. And on the buses they have implemented the design on, they decided to go with a modified version with half the screen reserved for ads

Unfortunately the TTCDesign account said there would simply too much data to show for connecting routes, which I think is quite silly - you don't need to show all connections, you can do it like YRT does and only show the next n connections at the intersection. This brings me to another point - cross agency on bus wayfinding is terrible, the only agency of which I know that does show connections at the next stop is YRT (they run so infrequently there aren't many connections to show anyways), but YRT doesn't display connection information for GO, TTC, or BT buses at stops which is quite a shame.

Edit: I asked the TTCHelps account on Twitter, they said they are finalizing their contracts, and that we should start seeing more of these signs shortly. Anyone have insight into why they might need over a year for these contracts and what these contracts might entail?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722808775453602013

 

[drum118]

The TTC already has a pretty decent design for bus screens, they just haven't gotten around to implementing it. And on the buses they have implemented the design on, they decided to go with a modified version with half the screen reserved for ads

Unfortunately the TTCDesign account said there would simply too much data to show for connecting routes, which I think is quite silly - you don't need to show all connections, you can do it like YRT does and only show the next n connections at the intersection. This brings me to another point - cross agency on bus wayfinding is terrible, the only agency of which I know that does show connections at the next stop is YRT (they run so infrequently there aren't many connections to show anyways), but YRT doesn't display connection information for GO, TTC, or BT buses at stops which is quite a shame.

View attachment 519091

Edit: I asked the TTCHelps account on Twitter, they said they are finalizing their contracts, and that we should start seeing more of these signs shortly. Anyone have insight into why they might need over a year for these contracts and what these contracts might entail?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722808775453602013

Someone should send these designers to Europe to see how they do with a lot more data or bring someone over here to show them how to do it.

 

[Jonny5]

Even if you make millions of dollars a year playing for the Maple Leafs, it's still the better way.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1723178063641366649

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

TTC riders lament ‘chaotic state’ of service updates — but that may be about to change​

The TTC plans to roll out live tracking for all buses and streetcars to third-party apps, fixing a long-standing rider complaint.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tt...cle_b07165aa-3894-586a-bf2d-1868f00764df.html

 

[nfitz]

Hopefully this includes run-on-demand and other unplanned vehicles. Which I have been seeing more of in the last few months.

 

[Northern Light]

TTC riders lament ‘chaotic state’ of service updates — but that may be about to change​

The TTC plans to roll out live tracking for all buses and streetcars to third-party apps, fixing a long-standing rider complaint.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tt...cle_b07165aa-3894-586a-bf2d-1868f00764df.html

Good. Now we need

1) LED Screens at every single stop without exception that show the next 3 vehicle arrival times, and any major disruptions on route or on the system.

2) We need to make every stop a timed stop. The TTC currently only tracks schedule to select stops and only counts early/late from stations and terminals. That's absurd even on short routes and offensive on long ones.

3) We need a better definition of on time, 1 min. early to 5M late is a no. Zero minutes early, and 3 minutes late. Done.

4) All that information is great, but even headways, with well managed service is even better; the TTC has to use the information it has to fix things pro-actively, rather than re-actively.

****

On that last one, as I headed out earlier today, I checked where my bus was before getting set to leave............. Lo 'and behold..........every single bus on my route, bar none could be found at the subway station. Leaving an every 10M route, on paper, with a 30 minute gap.

I'm me, UT, LOL, I phoned TTC and asked nicely to have ops contact a route supervisor and sort that out ASAP. Yay me, and all, and that I wasn't in a hurry too; but ( I, nor anyone else) should have to do that.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Good. Now we need

1) LED Screens at every single stop without exception that show the next 3 vehicle arrival times, and any major disruptions on route or on the system.

2) We need to make every stop a timed stop. The TTC currently only tracks schedule to select stops and only counts early/late from stations and terminals. That's absurd even on short routes and offensive on long ones.

3) We need a better definition of on time, 1 min. early to 5M late is a no. Zero minutes early, and 3 minutes late. Done.

4) All that information is great, but even headways, with well managed service is even better; the TTC has to use the information it has to fix things pro-actively, rather than re-actively.

****

On that last one, as I headed out earlier today, I checked where my bus before getting set to leave............. Lo 'and behold..........every single bus on my route, bar none could be found at the subway station. Leaving an every 10M route, on paper, with a 30 minute gap.

I'm me, UT, LOL, I phoned TTC and asked nicely to have ops contact a route supervisor and sort that out ASAP. Yay me, and all, and that I wasn't in a hurry too; but (nor anyone else) should have to do that.

The live updates being released to the public might be a blessing that we need. Now that the public can see how bad service is it will lead to greater complaints of how piss poor the TTC is at line management. Hopefully this is also another reason for firing Rick Leary, he falsified the numbers and hid them, now it’ll be out there and questions will arise.

But further more, it shines a light on how poor the TTC has gotten and how much is hidden away from City Hall and the public.


P.S. you are lucky to have a direct line to someone who is willing to look into and fix the line management for your route. Today I literally watched as my Finch West 36B bus get to 1min for arrive then all of sudden jump to 36mins at Finch West station. The whole route was a mess with gaps of 25mins and no one willing to do anything cause this is where construction of the LRT is happening.

 

[Northern Light]

The live updates being released to the public might be a blessing that we need. Now that the public can see how bad service is it will lead to greater complaints of how piss poor the TTC is at line management. Hopefully this is also another reason for firing Rick Leary, he falsified the numbers and hid them, now it’ll be out there and questions will arise.

But further more, it shines a light on how poor the TTC has gotten and how much is hidden away from City Hall and the public.


P.S. you are lucky to have a direct line to someone who is willing to look into and fix the line management for your route. Today I literally watched as my Finch West 36B bus get to 1min for arrive then all of sudden jump to 36mins at Finch West station. The whole route was a mess with gaps of 25mins and no one willing to do anything cause this is where construction of the LRT is happening.

Don't get me wrong, LOL............

I have a few 'ins'.........

But this one, I called the public number.

I just know how to express myself............and mostly, that works.

But truthfully, it shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Amare]

Hmm I wonder why the TTC is finally succumbing to releasing this information...information they've been wanting to keep under wraps and away from 3rd parties for the longest time. Information that when asked about, they would time and again provide some BS reason (or none at all) as to why they cant.

Is it because the CEO knows that the mayor is trying to get rid of his idiotic self, and this is a last ditch effort to save himself? Hmmm.

 

[smallspy]

Hopefully this includes run-on-demand and other unplanned vehicles. Which I have been seeing more of in the last few months.

So, funny thing about the RAD buses..... They are already perfectly capable of being tracked by the system. And lots of them are.

The system has the capability to allow the dispatchers to remotely allocate a RAD bus to the specific run, which brings up all of the scheduling and routing info on their screens, and puts them visible on the trackers. And this is almost always what is done with a RAD gets told to go cover a missing run on a route.

The issue is that many of the drivers don't like this.

Many of them will then log-out from the run they were given and log back in as a RAD. This removes all of that info from their screens, and allows them to think they have some semblance of anonymity. Some of them will play games, like sitting behind a regularly scheduled bus and try and avoid to pick up passengers - leaving a large gap in service behind them. The dispatchers can still see them on their screens, but they will no longer show up on as allocated to that route, nor will they show up on the trackers.

Dan

 

[DSCToronto]

So, funny thing about the RAD buses..... They are already perfectly capable of being tracked by the system. And lots of them are.

The system has the capability to allow the dispatchers to remotely allocate a RAD bus to the specific run, which brings up all of the scheduling and routing info on their screens, and puts them visible on the trackers. And this is almost always what is done with a RAD gets told to go cover a missing run on a route.

The issue is that many of the drivers don't like this.

Many of them will then log-out from the run they were given and log back in as a RAD. This removes all of that info from their screens, and allows them to think they have some semblance of anonymity. Some of them will play games, like sitting behind a regularly scheduled bus and try and avoid to pick up passengers - leaving a large gap in service behind them. The dispatchers can still see them on their screens, but they will no longer show up on as allocated to that route, nor will they show up on the trackers.

Dan

This is yet another example of the total uselessness of TTC "Management" - I am not in favour of discipline in most cases as it should be a last resort but I would have thought that Operators who log out of their assigned runs should be warned a couple of times and then disciplined. It is bad enough the the "Management" obviously does not care about service and 'customers' but it is far worse when those who are supposed to be the direct providers of it have the same idea and are allowed to carry on with no consequences.

 

[Richard White]

This is yet another example of the total uselessness of TTC "Management" - I am not in favour of discipline in most cases as it should be a last resort but I would have thought that Operators who log out of their assigned runs should be warned a couple of times and then disciplined. It is bad enough the the "Management" obviously does not care about service and 'customers' but it is far worse when those who are supposed to be the direct providers of it have the same idea and are allowed to carry on with no consequences.

This is one of the reasons my father retired from the TTC in 2019 after 30 years.

When he started in 1988, Operators respected each other. They helped each other out and the supervisory staff held people to account.

Yes there were Operators who messed around but people dealt with it themselves.

The culture started to change in the late 90s as alot of older Operators retired and younger people came on.

In 2019, the supervisors were inexperienced and didn't care, the Operators were mostly rookies who looked out for themselves.

He gave up complaining about idiots screwing around with the line he was on because the supervisors didn't know what was going on. They just pawned it off.

The culture had changed dramatically and he decided to hang it up rather than deal with the nonsense.