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- Thread starter Amare
- Start date
DSCToronto
Superstar
That is what happens when you do not look after and expand your electric system when you buy new equipment. The TTC has been talking of doing this but like so many projects it has been postponed over and over again. It is like the need to replace a huge percentage of their poles when they hung new and heavier overhead - something they knew about but clearly hoped to avoid.
Richard White
Senior Member
IIRC, the whole reason AC was left off the ALRV and CLRV fleets was due to the power requirements.
As I understand it, AC systems on the ALRV and CLRV would have drawn a significant amount of power causing brownouts. The reason they switched to pantographs on the Flexities was to accommodate the power requirements for the HVAC systems.
You think the TTC would have learned something but sadly they have not.
It's pretty sad that a group of people in a transit forum have more institutional knowledge than the largest transit organization in the country.
evandyk
Senior Member
I told my wife about this story this morning (I heard the CBC bit too) and she was incredulous that the TTC wouldn't have the expertise to identify their power limits before assigning additional service to the 511.
Richard White
Senior Member
This begs the question.. with all the upcoming service increases to the streetcar network is there a risk of other brownout issues?
DSCToronto
Superstar
From CP24. https://www.cp24.com/local/toronto/...s-replacing-monthly-passes-with-fare-capping/
The TTC is toying with the idea of replacing monthly passes by capping fares after a specific number of rides.
The move would mean that after a customer takes a certain number of trips in a month, additional rides would be free to the end of that month.
The recommendation is part of the 2026-2028 Ridership Growth strategy, which looks at ways to boost ridership on public transit in the coming years.
“Fare capping provides customers the same price certainty as a monthly pass without the often-substantial barrier of an up-front cost (currently $156 for an adult monthly pass),” the report reads. “Customers will always receive the best price and will no longer need to worry about overpaying and not using a monthly pass to its full value.”
Three potential fare caps are being considered: 47, 44 or 40 rides. Staff project the first option of 47 rides would see a $10 million drop in revenue but increase ridership by 3.6 million trips. The middle option of 44 rides would see a decrease in revenue of $19 million while boosting ridership by just over 7 million. Fare capping at 40 rides, staff estimate, would lead to $35 million loss while boosting ridership by 16 million.
The report also recommends increasing service in light of changing work from home policies from many major employers, as well as improving service reliability.
A representative from the TTC said the report is currently only a recommendation from staff and still requires board approval. It is set to go before the Strategic Planning Committee on Sept 4.
The TTC is toying with the idea of replacing monthly passes by capping fares after a specific number of rides.
The move would mean that after a customer takes a certain number of trips in a month, additional rides would be free to the end of that month.
The recommendation is part of the 2026-2028 Ridership Growth strategy, which looks at ways to boost ridership on public transit in the coming years.
“Fare capping provides customers the same price certainty as a monthly pass without the often-substantial barrier of an up-front cost (currently $156 for an adult monthly pass),” the report reads. “Customers will always receive the best price and will no longer need to worry about overpaying and not using a monthly pass to its full value.”
Three potential fare caps are being considered: 47, 44 or 40 rides. Staff project the first option of 47 rides would see a $10 million drop in revenue but increase ridership by 3.6 million trips. The middle option of 44 rides would see a decrease in revenue of $19 million while boosting ridership by just over 7 million. Fare capping at 40 rides, staff estimate, would lead to $35 million loss while boosting ridership by 16 million.
The report also recommends increasing service in light of changing work from home policies from many major employers, as well as improving service reliability.
A representative from the TTC said the report is currently only a recommendation from staff and still requires board approval. It is set to go before the Strategic Planning Committee on Sept 4.
Richard White
Senior Member
Just my two cents on this...
Why would they even consider something that would cost them money to implement?
That drop in revenue will need to be made up elsewhere and I suspect the TTC will cry poor yet again if they go ahead with this.
DSCToronto
Superstar
Presumably it will depend on how many 'sectors' still need power upgrades and where they are. One assumes some still remain to be upgraded if a major route like Bathurst is unable to cope.
DSCToronto
Superstar
They would presumably do it to increase ridership and remove more vehicles from the streets (one of their aims) and because it would benefit many customers (which they might be concerned about).
max
Active Member
I see the CBC has the story online now (it wasn't up when I made my first post) and it looks like the issue is at a junction box so I'm wrong about it being over at the station on Shaw
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DirectionNorth
Senior Member
Continued from the OL West thread. @nfitz
Compared to international tram systems, the TTC is slower, despite other systems also operating in mixed traffic, in urban centres, and so on (the internet says 14 km/h in Helsinki, 15 km/h in Vienna, 17 km/h in Brussels, 19 km/h in Munich, Asia doesn't really run trams, etc., etc.)
Is the claim that we the slowest tramway in the world true? Probably not, MUNI exists, but the TTC certainly does not run well, that is for sure.
I don't think that the US is the metric for success we want to use. Low operating speeds, low ridership, high costs ...
Compared to international tram systems, the TTC is slower, despite other systems also operating in mixed traffic, in urban centres, and so on (the internet says 14 km/h in Helsinki, 15 km/h in Vienna, 17 km/h in Brussels, 19 km/h in Munich, Asia doesn't really run trams, etc., etc.)
Is the claim that we the slowest tramway in the world true? Probably not, MUNI exists, but the TTC certainly does not run well, that is for sure.
smallspy
Senior Member
Incorrect.
You have misunderstood it.
The psychology says otherwise.
We have an emotional attachment to it. An employee in many cases does not.
Dan
Northern Light
Superstar
Discussion on this is underway over in the dedicated thread, here:
TTC Ridership Growth Strategy 3
For lack of a better spot, this deserves its own thread as the previous strategies also had. The first presentation on options under consideration is gong to the TTC's Strategic Planning Ctte today. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/tts/bgrd/backgroundfile-257313.pdf I will not post...
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Remember when they changed the SRT reactor rail anchor bolts without adequate testing, or even following up inspections based on their in house SOP's?
That borders on criminal negligence in my book
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nfitz
Superstar
I think the US is exactly the metric we should be using. It's certainly nothing to strive for - but my point is that the claims that we are the slowest in the world are patently wrong.
Helsinki? Maybe it's mixed running, personally I haven't been there. But look at the stop spacing. 110 km and only 344 stops in Helsinki according to Wikipedia? Toronto has only 83 km and 685 stops. That's about a 650 metres average spacing in Helsinki compred to about 240 metres in Toronto.
The main reason that Toronto is slower than many of these cities isn't the technology, ROW, attitude. It's simply the stop frequencies.
I haven't checked those other ones you quoted - but I bet that all are wider-spaced than Toronto. I saw London on that list ... that's about 750 metres! These are more compable to the FInch West LRT than a traditional North American streetcar.
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