[nightstreak]

Shifting topics back to "the revitalization". I've taken an interest in Union Station after the whole jersey barrier discussion and decided to explore last night like a reborn railfan.

Soooooo maybe I missed it in one of these 800 pages but why isn't anyone talking about the Via rail hall? Holy moly, it looks like the set of a horror movie, low ceilings, ugly 1960's mall flooring, two hundred and thirteen blinding flickering fluorescent lights right in your face as you go down the ramp, yet somehow it's still dark in there. So I googled it to find out that this has been recently renovated? WHHAT? This can't be the finished product, can it? Please someone catch me up, this is ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1528874947455909888

 

[T3G]

^bringing that forward for those who don't use Twitter:

 

[Northern Light]

Shifting topics back to "the revitalization". I've taken an interest in Union Station after the whole jersey barrier discussion and decided to explore last night like a reborn railfan.

Soooooo maybe I missed it in one of these 800 pages but why isn't anyone talking about the Via rail hall? Holy moly, it looks like the set of a horror movie, low ceilings, ugly 1960's mall flooring, two hundred and thirteen blinding flickering fluorescent lights right in your face as you go down the ramp, yet somehow it's still dark in there. So I googled it to find out that this has been recently renovated? WHHAT? This can't be the finished product, can it? Please someone catch me up, this is ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1528874947455909888

Yup, you did. LOL

A few times.

We've been over this project component a fair bit.

I mention it in passing back in 2021.

Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

Great Hall restoration at 99% - did they restore all the marble flooring already? AoD Some (a couple of years ago) but certainly not all. I suppose the remaining floor and the lighting may just be 1% of the whole job in the Great Hall but they REALLY need to be done!

urbantoronto.ca

***

Here's @EnviroTO in 2023:

Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

Not only that, but given what a mess the signage is at Union station (in the parts under Metrolinx's authority; much worse than anything the TTC has got), I'm not sure Metrolinx has anything useful to say to us on the wayfinding front. apparently because union station was done before they added...

urbantoronto.ca

There's lots more.

*****

Short of total reconstruction, the ceiling heights are a problem that is not easily solved.

That said........they certainly could and still should, do better with the lighting, the seating, and the non-stone tile for starters.

 

[nightstreak]

Yup, you did. LOL

A few times.

We've been over this project component a fair bit.

I mention it in passing back in 2021.

Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

Great Hall restoration at 99% - did they restore all the marble flooring already? AoD Some (a couple of years ago) but certainly not all. I suppose the remaining floor and the lighting may just be 1% of the whole job in the Great Hall but they REALLY need to be done!

urbantoronto.ca

***

Here's @EnviroTO in 2023:

Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

Not only that, but given what a mess the signage is at Union station (in the parts under Metrolinx's authority; much worse than anything the TTC has got), I'm not sure Metrolinx has anything useful to say to us on the wayfinding front. apparently because union station was done before they added...

urbantoronto.ca

There's lots more.

*****

Thanks for the back links. I'll catch myself up.

I just can't believe this has been left like this, it's hard to fathom how this is a part of the same building as the bright and airy York and Bay concourses. It looks like a derelict bus station in — throws a dart on a map — Deloraine, Manitoba, not the terminus for The Great Canadian Via Rail route and the central station for Canada's largest city.

Wandering around, I noticed some construction at the far end of this room that after some googling, I found are going to be stairs to the lower shopping level and I'm wondering that maybe they're waiting for the South Concourse to be finished before making this a more integral part of the station. I mean, I hope so.

Short of total reconstruction, the ceiling heights are a problem that is not easily solved.

That said........they certainly could and still should, do better with the lighting, the seating, and the non-stone tile for starters.

I don't think the ceiling height is the main problem with this. Like you said, the choice of yellow fluorescent lighting is the biggest offender to start. Carpeting the floors with Via Rail colours would go a long way to killing the echos and the feeling of a murder hallway.

And forget all that, it doesnt even work as a train station. Instead of using the seating in the little rooms off to the sides, people were lining up up up the ramp into the Great Hall with a lady shouting out boarding orders. Did they not install a public address system like any other train station? Maybe calling out boarding by car number? Everything about this place is just dysfunctional, I had to look around to make sure I wasn't being punked.

 

[nightstreak]

Here's a good example (pardon for waking up somebody who posted 4 years ago)

View attachment 336996 on top of that here is the great hall entrance

The entrances to the York and Bay concourses are a low ceiling and a heritage look yet they feel well put together, appropriately lit and with nice finishings that respect the heritage. In fact, they look more heritage than the 1950's dank mall in the Via Rail concourse.

 

[DSCToronto]

That's good to know and I'm glad there are these community support workers, but to @Admiral Beez 's point, if the station is open 24/7, what is to stop it from becoming a makeshift shelter if people are just allowed to sleep in corridors and wash up in the bathrooms?

The station is NOT open 24/7. It closes about 1am. EDIT: Actually: Toronto's Union Station is open daily from 5:30 AM to 12:45 AM.

 

[ShonTron]

I’ve been on a very late VIA train that arrived at Union around 2:15 AM (a train in front of ours hit a truck at a level crossing). It was an unpleasant experience as all the security guards lined up to watch us exit the station and out the front doors.

 

[christiesplits]

I’ve been on a very late VIA train that arrived at Union around 2:15 AM (a train in front of ours hit a truck at a level crossing). It was an unpleasant experience as all the security guards lined up to watch us exit the station and out the front doors.

There's a similar scenario at the London VIA Station. You are only allowed to enter the station after 9 pm if you show your VIA ticket, or if taking an intercity bus, your bus ticket.

 

[Mihairokov]

Carpeting the floors with Via Rail colours would go a long way to killing the echos and the feeling of a murder hallway.

I assume the reason why it isn't carpeted is the same reason why there isn't more seating available.

Instead of using the seating in the little rooms off to the sides, people were lining up up up the ramp into the Great Hall with a lady shouting out boarding orders. Did they not install a public address system like any other train station? Maybe calling out boarding by car number?

The alcoves are nowhere near large enough for the number of passengers going through the station at any given time. I might be misremebering, but at times the alcoves are only for priority boarding or business class boarding, and economy have to line up. Someone else is free to correct me on this, but there's no real way to check and/or gauge access to the alcoves, so anyone can sit there. Occasionally staff will come around and scan tickets if a train is boarding soon.

There is a public address which IIRC can be heard in the Great Hall, but it's not amazing. It's a cumbersome station due to the layout of the main VIA Hall, the alcoves, and the escalators, which staff will typically either guard or block off in some way, as people cannot simply go up to access the platforms similar to how the GO platforms can be accessed. There isn't enough room for passengers to queue and wait on the platforms themselves.

Are you catching a common theme yet?

One latest gripe is the location of the new Tim Horton's in the VIA Hall. Instead of being located in the Hall behind lines of people it should be located in the Great Hall on the side where the former ticketing offices used to be. It would provide a general retail option for people cutting through the station, would provide some kind of purpose to the Great Hall, and would free up whatever space the VIA Hall previously had. I'm sure there are rules against it.

In general, Union is a rough station because there's no real way to gauge to see where your train is or what its status is on the platform. There's no easily identifiable gate or door (they're hidden behind the alcoves) and so unlike an airport or, say, Ottawa, you can't keep an eye to see what's going on with boarding. Combine that with being an incredibly busy station of trains arriving and departing. I typically try to arrive as close to my departure time as I can as I hate spending time in the VIA Hall, and the business lounge is located far enough away that it takes a few moments to get from there to the gate. This is in contrast to the new lounge in Ottawa where I will gladly show up ~30 minutes in advance as it's a nice spot to hang out in prior to boarding, and is located directly next to the gates with views of the trains

All of the improvements to literally everything else at Union have been very good except for VIA boarding and Hall.

 

[crs1026]

^ The lack of a decent gate-specific PA system in the departures hall really astounds me.... it's as if nobody from either VIA nor the entire Union refurbishment project ever visited an airport. A proper pre-boarding announcement protocol combined with better wayfinding would mitigate a lot of the spatial and procedural chaos in that space.

The alcoves (which only date back to the late sixties reno that coincided with the initiation of GO Transit and the CN Turbo/Tempo brands, so not a heritage attribute) have never been very functional or useful. Few people use them - when it's obvious that queues are forming at the gates, people just stand in line. I wonder if even more of the various partitions can be removed or at least opened up. Perhaps when the track level platforms are reconfigured, the entire space can be redesigned.

- Paul.

 

[bearcat]

I assume the reason why it isn't carpeted is the same reason why there isn't more seating available.

The alcoves are nowhere near large enough for the number of passengers going through the station at any given time. I might be misremebering, but at times the alcoves are only for priority boarding or business class boarding, and economy have to line up. Someone else is free to correct me on this, but there's no real way to check and/or gauge access to the alcoves, so anyone can sit there. Occasionally staff will come around and scan tickets if a train is boarding soon.

There is a public address which IIRC can be heard in the Great Hall, but it's not amazing. It's a cumbersome station due to the layout of the main VIA Hall, the alcoves, and the escalators, which staff will typically either guard or block off in some way, as people cannot simply go up to access the platforms similar to how the GO platforms can be accessed. There isn't enough room for passengers to queue and wait on the platforms themselves.

Are you catching a common theme yet?

One latest gripe is the location of the new Tim Horton's in the VIA Hall. Instead of being located in the Hall behind lines of people it should be located in the Great Hall on the side where the former ticketing offices used to be. It would provide a general retail option for people cutting through the station, would provide some kind of purpose to the Great Hall, and would free up whatever space the VIA Hall previously had. I'm sure there are rules against it.

In general, Union is a rough station because there's no real way to gauge to see where your train is or what its status is on the platform. There's no easily identifiable gate or door (they're hidden behind the alcoves) and so unlike an airport or, say, Ottawa, you can't keep an eye to see what's going on with boarding. Combine that with being an incredibly busy station of trains arriving and departing. I typically try to arrive as close to my departure time as I can as I hate spending time in the VIA Hall, and the business lounge is located far enough away that it takes a few moments to get from there to the gate. This is in contrast to the new lounge in Ottawa where I will gladly show up ~30 minutes in advance as it's a nice spot to hang out in prior to boarding, and is located directly next to the gates with views of the trains

All of the improvements to literally everything else at Union have been very good except for VIA boarding and Hall.

I used to travel on VIA rail most weekends between 2013 to 2017. I never understood why people line up at the escalators before boarding starts. Everyone has assigned seats and there was never any issue of there not being enough room for luggage. I would either arrive a few minutes before departure once everyone already boarded, or just chill in the alcoves until everyone boarded and then walk up to the escalator.

Yes if everyone did the same as.me.it would be chaos, but it seemed like no one did. People would wait standing in line for like 30 minutes or longer.

 

[evandyk]

I always wonder what a tourist arriving in Toronto by train thinks. You get dumped in this dingy hallway with poor lighting and almost no signage.

 

[MisterF]

The way people line up an hour before boarding has always been a mystery to me. Dozens or maybe even hundreds of empty seats but you stand in a giant queue instead? Why? It's not like the train is going to leave without you if you're not in line so far in advance.

 

[nightstreak]

I assume the reason why it isn't carpeted is the same reason why there isn't more seating available.

Not sure I follow. Are you suggesting they don't want passengers to get comfortable? Airports have carpeted areas at the gates. Low ceiling areas feel comfortable with carpet because it suppresses echos and interesting patterns draw your eyes down instead of up.



If airports that see millions of feet every year can take it, so can VIA Rail. Maybe keep the centre aisle terrazzo and carpet the sides beyond the pillars.

The alcoves are nowhere near large enough for the number of passengers going through the station at any given time. I might be misremebering, but at times the alcoves are only for priority boarding or business class boarding, and economy have to line up.

There's quite a bit of alcove seating but few people were using them because they were all standing in a lineup as indicated by the drill sergeant....uh VIA Rail lady. There was no indiction that this seating is for anyone special. There is a separate lounge for business class and sleeper class on the way to the UPX terminal.

Yes, not enough room in there for a whole train's worth of passengers. A space like the Great Hall traditionally serves this purpose. There needs to be a lot more seating out there and the PA system needs to be upgraded. Would be nice to have an old timey split flap Departures Board in the Great Hall.

One latest gripe is the location of the new Tim Horton's in the VIA Hall. Instead of being located in the Hall behind lines of people it should be located in the Great Hall on the side where the former ticketing offices used to be. It would provide a general retail option for people cutting through the station, would provide some kind of purpose to the Great Hall, and would free up whatever space the VIA Hall previously had. I'm sure there are rules against it.

I don't think there are rules against food services in the Great Hall, but probably a deliberate direction not to commercialize it with fast food. There used to be a Harveys there when I was a regular at this station in the 90s.

I read about what's going on with that former ticket booth area. It's meant to be a restaurant with seating upstairs overlooking the Great Hall. I don't know if they ever got around to finding a tenant but like the Blue Bovine that got delayed by years, I imagine the pandemic had something to do with it.

All of the improvements to literally everything else at Union have been very good except for VIA boarding and Hall.

Honestly, I'm having a hard time believing they're going to leave it like this. The more I explore, the more this looks to be a temporary fix. There is a lot of construction activity adjoining the VIA Rail concourse. An entire massive South concourse is being built that will connect to the VIA Rail concourse. I'm imagining the wall and doors on the other side coming down and opening into this new concourse.

From this video:

Besides this South Concourse, the video above talks about how after the new south platforms are done, the existing platforms are going to be reorganized, in which case the VIA Rail platorms may be widened which will affect the escalators into the VIA Rail concourse, So yeah, probably more coming or I'm just trying to be optimistic cuz this place sucks

 

[bearcat]

Yes I think once the.VIA rail platforms are widened hopefully people will be allowed to wait on the platforms if they want. Hopefully they will also be at level boarding height to speed up boarding as well.

I worry though with HSR being possibly planned now any improvement to VIA facilities at Union will be postponed until the HSR plan is figured out.