[Amare]

I've heard and seen enough problems with this in Toronto, so I figured it's time to create a thread about it.

The issue at play: the lack of coordinated road/transit shutdowns between the TTC, Metrolinx and City of Toronto.

This weekend (May 31st) is a perfect illustration of a lack of co-ordination between 3 organizations who should by know, how to co-ordinate shutdowns so that it's not virtually impossible to get to one area of the city without it taking an extra 3x the amount of time:

May 31st:

​

Metrolinx​

• No Lakeshore West service between Mimico GO and Aldershot GO (May 30-31st)
• No Barrie Line service on the entire line (May 30-31st)
• Union Pearson Express Service reduces to 30 minutes (May 30-31st)

TTC​

• No service on the Bloor-Danforth Line between Ossington and Jane stations (May 30-31st)

City of Toronto​

• Gardiner Expressway closed from South Kingsway to the DVP for the Bike for Brain Health event (May 31st until 2am -4pm)
• Don Valley Parkway closed from the Gardiner Expressway to Highway 401 (May 31st until 2am -4pm)

Most people understand that there is a need for construction and road/transit closures in the city. What frustrates everyone in this city, is the inability for these 3 organizations to co-ordinate the closures so everything isnt happening at the same time. This isnt the 1st time this year this lack of co-ordination has happened, and this is something that should've been figured out long ago. All 3 organizations know when they are planning these things as they are planned out months in advance, so can somebody get their calendars and sharpies to co-ordinate these things so one area of the city isnt getting hammered?

Taking all these closures into play, how do the wise guys at Metrolinx, TTC and City think people will get into and out of the west-end of Toronto? Yet again this is bad planning, plain and simple.

 

[Jolene]

I've heard and seen enough problems with this in Toronto, so I figured it's time to create a thread about it.

The issue at play: the lack of coordinated road/transit shutdowns between the TTC, Metrolinx and City of Toronto.

This weekend (May 31st) is a perfect illustration of a lack of co-ordination between 3 organizations who should by know, how to co-ordinate shutdowns so that it's not virtually impossible to get to one area of the city without it taking an extra 3x the amount of time:

May 31st:

​

Metrolinx​

• No Lakeshore West service between Mimico GO and Aldershot GO (May 30-31st)
• No Barrie Line service on the entire line (May 30-31st)
• Union Pearson Express Service reduces to 30 minutes (May 30-31st)

TTC​

• No service on the Bloor-Danforth Line between Ossington and Jane stations (May 30-31st)

City of Toronto​

• Gardiner Expressway closed from South Kingsway to the DVP for the Bike for Brain Health event (May 31st until 2am -4pm)
• Don Valley Parkway closed from the Gardiner Expressway to Highway 401 (May 31st until 2am -4pm)

Most people understand that there is a need for construction and road/transit closures in the city. What frustrates everyone in this city, is the inability for these 3 organizations to co-ordinate the closures so everything isnt happening at the same time. This isnt the 1st time this year this lack of co-ordination has happened, and this is something that should've been figured out long ago. All 3 organizations know when they are planning these things as they are planned out months in advance, so can somebody get their calendars and sharpies to co-ordinate these things so one area of the city isnt getting hammered?

Taking all these closures into play, how do the wise guys at Metrolinx, TTC and City think people will get into and out of the west-end of Toronto? Yet again this is bad planning, plain and simple.

Totally, the lack of coordination is ridiculous.
Transit was a complete shitshow yesterday. The situation at Bramalea with LW replacement buses was incredibly poorly handled, overly wrought and confusing, and didn't make much sense.

 

[Amare]

Take it easy keyboard warrior, there are only so many summer weekends here in Toronto, let them work as much as possible.

Again, the problem isnt necessarily the shutdowns and the required work that's necessary.

It's the lack of co-ordination. This is not a one-off thing, it happens multiple successive times where one concentration of the city gets systematically impacted because of multiple projects/events happening.

 

[cryogen]

Again, the problem isnt necessarily the shutdowns and the required work that's necessary.

It's the lack of co-ordination. This is not a one-off thing, it happens multiple successive times where one concentration of the city gets systematically impacted because of multiple projects/events happening.

Again, it's a big city with a long list of construction projects and a very short construction season, especially this year with the world cup.

 

[Jolene]

That doesn't mean things couldn't be coordinated a heck of a lot better. It's a big city, there will always be construction and huge events - it's difficult, sure, but also very fair to push for better coordination between the different agencies.

 

[T3G]

Take it easy keyboard warrior, there are only so many summer weekends here in Toronto, let them work as much as possible.

What, and the people who need to get places can kick rocks?

This is a message seldom remembered on the forum, but cities are supposed to work for their populations, not the other way around. Yes, construction works need to be done, but knocking out all three major arteries in the southern part of the city in one go does not remotely pass the common sense smell test. What happens when a major highway and both rapid transit lines are knocked out all at once, precluding a seamless journey from the western suburbs to downtown? Neither parallel local bus lines (which, to boot, are very slow and not meant for crosstown travel), nor parallel local roads, nor the 401 have the capacity to absorb all this extra traffic.

As for the World cup excuse, well, maybe the bright minds at the city should have stopped to verify whether they can host the WC around their deferred construction timelines???? What a thought.

 

[cryogen]

That doesn't mean things couldn't be coordinated a heck of a lot better. It's a big city, there will always be construction and huge events - it's difficult, sure, but also very fair to push for better coordination between the different agencies.

Just because you weren't consulted doesn't mean they didn't do their best efforts to coordinate. Weekend closure require a huge amount of coordination. This 'inconvenience' is a price to pay while living in a big city.

 

[dowlingm]

To me the missed opportunity with every closure of the DVP is weekend Richmond Hill GO rail service. Even though it doesn’t directly relieve Barrie GO service, it probably would have taken at least some degree of demand from the Aurora-Newmarket area too. But nothing, not DVP closures, not Stouffville closures when they sometimes coexist with DVP closures, seems to be persuasive,

 

[nfitz]

This simultaneous closing of parallel subway and rail services is bizarre. With Lakeshore West closed, then Kipling become a major spot for alternative service. And then a TTC closure as well? One or the other could have been staggered for a week. There was nothing on Victoria Day weekeed for example (where I've never seen so little traffic in my life, driving to the airport at 6 pm on a Saturday, from Leslieville).

And then, closing the Gardiner and DVP at the same time - on top of it? My wife was to head out to near Long Branch around noon. The obvious thing to do was take GO, though I expect she woud have driven (yeah, I know), as traffic isn't normally too bad at that time of day on a Sunday. So she decided to check transit options instead, with the highway closed. Only to find the GO service not running (with no replacement buses). So she had a plan to take the subway to Kipling and one of the many buses from Kipling to Long Branch station. And then I noticed that the subway was closed as well! (I think she finally took a subway to Spadina staton, and got a ride with someone who lived nearby).

Obviously stuff has to happen, but this didn't used to be such an issue until last year, and it's happened 3 or 4 times now in the last 2 years.

Just because you weren't consulted doesn't mean they didn't do their best efforts to coordinate. Weekend closure require a huge amount of coordination. This 'inconvenience' is a price to pay while living in a big city.

These schedules are established long in advance. It's not THAT much effort to avoid big shut downs of parallel services/roads.

You are new here - your first contribution to this thread was to insult the previous poster unnecessarily. Why? And this post has been condescending to another poster. Please be polite and assume good faith. Others may have different and perfectly valid views to you.

The key issue you've not addressed is why did the co-ordination seem to stop in 2025? They always seemed well-coordinated in the past to me. The only weekend I recall being impacted with both GO and subway closures conflicting was during the G20 rioting in 2010, and I ended up taking a circuitous route.

To me the missed opportunity with every closure of the DVP is weekend Richmond Hill GO rail service. Even though it doesn’t directly relieve Barrie GO service, it probably would have taken at least some degree of demand from the Aurora-Newmarket area too. But nothing, not DVP closures, not Stouffville closures when they sometimes coexist with DVP closures, seems to be persuasive,

Where/what is the Barrie construction. GO calls it "residual construction", but I don't know what that means. It does conflict with the DVP closure, but I don't think it conflicts much with the Lakeshore West closures.

But similiary for Lakeshore West, they could have run some Milton trains this weekend; I'm not sure what the limits there are, and they've only run a handful of Milton trains when they have run on weekends in the past.

 

[north-of-anything]

Where/what is the Barrie construction. GO calls it "residual construction", but I don't know what that means. It does conflict with the DVP closure, but I don't think it conflicts much with the Lakeshore West closures.

The "residual construction" is referring to work being done over the next week, in particular wrapping up anything that could not be completed this weekend. Barrie GO's construction was in a number of locations, including the future GO stations at Bloor and Eglinton, and the grade crossing at Wellington Street East in Aurora.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The problem is in that the City closes the DVP and Gardiner multiple weekends a year.. somehow MTO manages to avoid closures more or less entirely on their highways.

I get that this weekend was a charity event - but I hope that at a minimum that once MTO takes full control they will drop the annual weekend closure for maintenence.

 

[DSCToronto]

The problem is in that the City closes the DVP and Gardiner multiple weekends a year.. somehow MTO manages to avoid closures more or less entirely on their highways.

I get that this weekend was a charity event - but I hope that at a minimum that once MTO takes full control they will drop the annual weekend closure for maintenence.

Highways do need repair and re-surfacing, is it less disruptive to do this work over many nights (or days) with the road partially open or is it better to get it over with in 2 days with a complete closure. I suspect it is far cheaper and far more efficient to have a complete closure. I am really not sure that major highways should EVER be closed for charity events - it may be fun to run or bike on the Gardiner or DVP but .......

 

[innsertnamehere]

Highways do need repair and re-surfacing, is it less disruptive to do this work over many nights (or days) with the road partially open or is it better to get it over with in 2 days with a complete closure. I suspect it is far cheaper and far more efficient to have a complete closure. I am really not sure that major highways should EVER be closed for charity events - it may be fun to run or bike on the Gardiner or DVP but .......

MTO accomplishes it with overnight lane reductions across multiple weeks. Likely more expensive but less impactful.

Toronto also tends to repave parts of the DVP/Gardiner each year on the weekend closures - MTO tends to issue an entire contract for a 10-20km stretch at once and it's done once every 15 years across a construction season of evening lane closures, instead of doing 1km once every spring and it taking 15 years to rehabilitate the entire thing piece-by-piece.

 

[smallspy]

The problem is in that the City closes the DVP and Gardiner multiple weekends a year.. somehow MTO manages to avoid closures more or less entirely on their highways.

Two weekends a year for construction, and one Sunday for the Ride for Cancer. I guess that's technically considered multiple.

But no, the MTO does not manage to avoid closing highways entirely. Sure, in some cases they are able to stage the work so that only the collectors or express lanes are closed at a time where the highways are set up to allow that, but they absolutely do close highways in their entirety overnights and sometimes over whole weekends. Have you forgotten about the replacement of the Finch West bridges under the 400? Or what has been going on in Ottawa for the past several years?

I get that this weekend was a charity event - but I hope that at a minimum that once MTO takes full control they will drop the annual weekend closure for maintenence.

I suspect that they likely will, but at the cost of having multiple overnight closures instead.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

To me the missed opportunity with every closure of the DVP is weekend Richmond Hill GO rail service. Even though it doesn’t directly relieve Barrie GO service, it probably would have taken at least some degree of demand from the Aurora-Newmarket area too. But nothing, not DVP closures, not Stouffville closures when they sometimes coexist with DVP closures, seems to be persuasive,

I really think that they should run Richmond Hill trains even hourly to Old Cummer when there is a closure. They can do it when there is a special event and they own the trackage. There is no reason why they cant do that. Buses can go from Old Cummer to Bloomington VIA Leslie and 404 or if you want to serve Langstaff it can take Steeles to Bayview and then Langstaff Rd to avoid traffic.