This one is back with new Arch. Plans from a new architect. B+H.

And....

It's terrible.

I don't mean that in a this is for a good cause we should accept something unambitious here.......

I mean from a functional perspective this is the wrong concept for this site, and really, for just about any site. It will not help end homelessness, it will perpetuate it; and will do absolutely nothing to revitalize George Street.

On top of its functional failings it's un-holy ugly.

I would seriously support dismissing anyone from public employment involved in putting this forward.

@Paclo ; @HousingNowTO


From the above:

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Ground Floor Plan w/Legend:

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I'll shift my 'further comments' to the next post.
 
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Further Comments:

While I can't stand the aesthetics here, or the massing.............the real problem here is a the non-functional program.

Let's take this apart.

First/foremost from the point view of those that are homeless, what do they need that the City is short of? Permanent, affordable housing. What is missing from this project? That.

Long Term Care is also something we're short of; the case could certainly be made for prioritizing that here, but putting that on the same site as Emergency Shelter Beds and Supportive Housing (mental health + addiction), plus 100 transitional shelter beds ( likely SRO) means that families will strenuously object to placing their loved ones here. There will be a lot of complications from a security perspective, and at only 124 beds, the facility is well below the normal minimums for the MoH funding model.

The original purpose of this project was also to take a section of street known for petty crime, violence, open drug use, abandoned properties and an over-concentration of social services and drastically reduce that, while building a much needed social good, affordable housing, likely with a more modest shelter.

Here, we're functionally back up to 250 shelter beds, only 124 LTC beds, no affordable housing, and a building that's an eyesore, looks institutional, has bulky, over-bearing massing completely out of scale with its surroundings and has cold materiality.

Really, other than a lesson in abject failure, I don't know what to make of this.

I'm prepared to support the height, but the massing is entirely unreasonable, and the articulation of the facade as a giant, un-ending, oppressive blob will not do.

Nix the Community Hub idea, it does not add value here.

I would prefer the following, in light of all other shelter beds built and proposed in the City, I would remove this project component entirely. Shelter beds are not real housing, they're a band aid, and one many homeless reject due to safety, privacy, and hygiene concerns as well as rules. They're also the most expensive type of housing to operate and suck money away from housing more people, better.

Divide the site into 2 completely discrete buildings.

1 LTC, and 1 permanent affordable housing building, with actual apartments.

Make the LTC 220 beds. (+76) (replaces 100 transitional units and the Community Hub, + 2 floors)

Replace the residual 150 Supportive/Shelter beds with a 75 unit affordable housing building (+ 2 floors)

Increase the setback from for the mid-level floors by 1.5M, but eliminate the upper tier setback for floors 9/10.

My version 295 units vs 374 beds.

* math is crude, but I'm assuming I'm pushing the limits on shadowing Allan Gardens, and by moving to 2 discrete buildings I'm requiring 2 more stairwells. But probably with the lower unit count, far fewer elevators. This design, if I'm reading it correctly has up to 13 elevators (only 3 reach the highest floor), my version would be no more than six elevators, saving considerable space.

If we could bump up the unit count in my variation, I'd be fine w/that, within the different massing.

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Note, the former Court House on Jarvis is a large site, directly across the street here along with Dixon Hall's 24-hour respite centre and most of it is quite vertically challenged. Taken together, something vastly better could be achieved, at far lower cost per unit.

The height precedent on the adjacent lands is 36s to 46s, the former due to the hospital helicopter flight paths.

I will therefore use the more conservative numbers.

The combined foot print of the above lands approaches 60,000ft2. Even though the frontage is nearly 90M, because of the way the adjacent sites are massed, with separation distances, its likely you could only get one full tower in here.
But there would be room for 2-4 midrise buildings, depending on how you massed the site out. I would conservatively assume 330 units are possible in the tower form, and 2-3 midrises around it could deliver, easily a further 350 units.

A well planned out, combination development could achieve: (2 options)

A 250 bed LTC on existing site, 680 units of housing on the Jarvis sites (very conservative), all affordable.

Or

You spend the public dollars on the LTC, and you deliver 680 units privately financed - 20% affordable for 140 units. Still permanently housing (with the LTC) 390.

* the former court house is provincial property, I'm uncertain as to the ownership of Dixon Hall's site.

Imagine if government tried to solve problems instead of perpetuate them...
 
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Absolutely agree with you, and thank you for such a detailed counter-proposal.

The planned 'community hub' is really the most ridiculous part of this whole plan and shows a lot of people involved have really 'drank the kool aid' in terms of what a revitalized George Street could be. If public libraries across the city struggle to keep anti-social behaviour under control (due to many issues outside of their control) then I can only imagine how rapidly this community hub would degrade. For all the utopian renderings, hell will freeze over before parents send their kids into what is essentially largest concentration of severely mentally ill and addicted individuals this side of the Rocky mountains.

Proposals such as this show the complete detachment from the realities of urban life much of the municipal government seems to suffer from. Call it rendering-itis maybe?
 
...
Nix the Community Hub idea, it does not add value here.
...

This type of space is in extreme demand within downtown Toronto. The Keele facility (only other Toronto Community Hub I know of) mostly provides office space to Not-For-Profit organizations at rates near the operations cost (discounted from market rates).

Every organization that hands out meals needs a kitchen to prepare them in. Every organization that has volunteers hand out blankets needs storage and a coordination/administration space. Organizations helping homeless find shared housing or job placements need offices. Church basements, where many of these organizations were hosted over the last 100 years, have been closing.

Here's a map of spaces within downtown. Note that most are under ~3000sqft while his project will add 41,000sqft to the space available. That doesn't mean this is the best location for such a thing but it certainly wont go unused. Most of the potential tenants already receive government funding through grants which get eaten into by their landlord.

 
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This type of space is in extreme demand within downtown Toronto.

I'm not suggesting otherwise.

What I'm suggesting is that this will not benefit residents of an LTC, nor the broader community, who won't want to go anywhere near 250 bed shelter system with a significant number of beds serving the mentally ill and/or those suffering from addiction.

Its poor placement.

The Keele facility (only other Toronto Community Hub I know of) mostly provides office space to Not-For-Profit organizations at rates near the operations cost (discounted from market rates).

There are other hubs, but not run by the City. The City will be adding one as part of the Dawes Road library branch.

Thorncliffe and Rexdale also have hubs but they are structured differently.

Every organization that hands out meals needs a kitchen to prepare them in. Every organization that has volunteers hand out blankets needs storage and a coordination/administration space. Organizations helping homeless find job placements need offices. Church basements, where many of these organizations were hosted over the last 100 years, have been closing.

Here's a map of spaces within downtown. Note that most are under ~3000sqft while his project will add 41,000sqft to the space available.

I get that. Though if you give me a choice of 41,000ft 2 more affordable housing, or the hub, and I'll pick the housing. You're probably looking at 70 units there.

Still, I support space for the providers you note, I just don't think this is the right space.
 
I don't see a problem with this proposal other than it hasn't been built already and as of now, there are no shovels in the ground. I have never looked at George Street as a street that needed to be revitalized. Improved yes but everyone has to live somewhere and with a growing homeless population George Street has always been where our homeless have been housed in an ancient decrepit facility that has been long overdue for replacement. Build something much bigger and brand new and safe and secure to handle the increasing demand. I would hope within a new building would be social services designed to move the residents off of the streets, off of drug dependency, and into permanent affordable housing and employment.

Affordable housing and LTC are critical needs, but I don't see any benefit in incorporating these needs under one roof at this location. It should be a facility designed for those with the most desperate needs. As for scale, I don't see this as being out of scale with the neighborhood when you have condo towers 50+ stories a stone's throw away with even taller towers planned for Jarvis the next street over.

I make these comments as someone who has lived just a 5-minute walk north of this area. Admittedly it has been many years since I walked down that stretch of George Street. I was very grim back then like something out of The Walking Dead. Something needs to be done.
 
Affordable housing and LTC are critical needs, but I don't see any benefit in incorporating these needs under one roof at this location. It should be a facility designed for those with the most desperate needs.

This is my principle issue...........at the end of the Miller Mayoralty, Toronto had about 4,400 shelter beds, those for beds for the desperate as it were. It had roughly the same number of homeless.

There were some people out on the streets or in parks who refused shelter beds, typically 100-200 most nights.......and there was just about that amount of spare capacity on most nights.

Since then, we've increased the number of shelter beds to 10,700, but there are now 2-3,000 people sleeping in parks, bus shelters, in encampents or back alleys etc.

So clearly that plan worked really well.........population growth and a rise in the cost of housing are parts of the story; but the larger storey is social assistance rates that have been frozen multiple times, and that are no longer sufficient
to get someone a rooming house bed; a minimum wage that has not kept pace with inflation, insufficient numbers of Long Term Care beds, and insufficient mental health system capacity for treating addiction and other mental health disorders, and finally, a shelter system that is so unsafe, and unpleasant, that many homeless who have experienced it would prefer sleeping outside.

In that context, 250 more shelter beds of assorted variations will do little if anything to stop the problem. Worse, they cost far more that permanent affordable housing and therefore eat up precious dollars that could help more people, rather than fewer.

I'm not asking to close shelter beds, or not open those already planned, designed, approved and/or under construction, there is a need there.
But at some point we need to direct the money to effective solutions, not band aids. The plan should not be one of sustaining the homeless, but having fewer homeless, by getting them proper, permanent housing.

Admittedly it has been many years since I walked down that stretch of George Street. I was very grim back then like something out of The Walking Dead. Something needs to be done

This is the other issue. The street feels unsafe to walk down for many. That's what revitalization was about. It was about spreading the social services over a larger area, instead of concentrating them so heavily on a couple of blocks of George
Street, to return the street to one people felt they could walk down safely, ideally 24/7, but certainly during daytime hours.

I have walked down the street, and not been threatened or intimidated, but I'm a decent sized guy, who doesn't intimidate easily; but even I feel the need to look around carefully and be sure I know where everyone is around me and what they're doing when I'm on that block.

That has diminished with the shelter mostly vacant, but it hasn't gone away, given other services that remain on the block and large numbers of vacant buildings.
Its not something I want to see sustained or made worse. Lets use this block for affordable housing and target a portion of those units for those living in shelters or who refuse shelters, but are housing-ready.

Lets build LTC and target a portion of those beds for those in shelters who are unlikely to be able to care for themselves, particularly those who are older.

A program for St. George should help take people off the street, rather than keep people on it.
 
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Sadly, this very ill-conceived project (in its current form) appears set to move forward, based on a report to next week's Executive Ctte:


274 beds across the program for the building............

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Edit: I initially wrote down a budget number here that I've since had my doubts about in re-reading the report.

So I have removed that content pending clarification.

Regardless, as designed, this project is a poor use of housing funds. So many more people, could be housed so much better, with a different program concept, for far less money. (freeing up resources to house more people, on other sites)
 
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What an immense downgrade from the previous proposal. It is cold, monolithic, unfriendly, imposing, ugly. It is the spirit of a fluorescent lighting tube made into a building. The people its meant to serve are homeless and disadvantaged, and I guess the architect and committee decided the city should further brutalize their mental health with a clinical institutional building. This is a depressing project.

What happened to the previous design, which had more texture, warmth and variety??
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Can someone explain what exactly is in this architecture RFP? What is being changed?

Its my understanding that B+H was only hired to do the bare minimum needed to get the zoning in place.

So I believe this RFP is a firm to get fill in all the details and get it through Site Plan and Construction.

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Regrettably, the base concept here is awful, and not just aesthetically. The attempt to shoe-horn in so many different programs has led to an absurd number of elevators so that each program (set of floors) can have their own. It inflates costs, wastes space and makes everything clunky.

The program also fails to prioritize actually housing people, permanently, which was the original intent, to move away from short-term shelters that ineffectively address the symptom (homelessness) instead of curing the problems with homes and/or long-term care beds of some form as may be appropriate.
 
At Bid Award Ctte this week, the RFP for architecture here will be awarded to Montgomery Sisam.


From the above, we can see the cashflow and infer that construction will likely start in late '26 or early '27

Substantial completion is likely targeted for 2029/30.

With deficiency correction to follow.

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Good luck to them trying to improve this mess.

Such an important project, potentially, so mishandled in every way.

@Paclo to update the title/Db
 

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