AlbertC
Superstar
Pinnacle sure love their cul-de-sacs. May end up as a regrettable mistake, I would prefer seeing that as animated urban space. Good spot for a woonerf actually.
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Canadian Chocho
Active Member
I think the building directly north of the Toronto Star Building should go and be converted into a square/park. It's already the most bland building in renderings and it would probably give the area much needed breathing room.
Just to be clear, there are no nimbys at the DRP. I do anticipate lots of blowback from current area residents though (which the project is already getting anyway) and which I've stated in the front page article.
I don't always agree with DRP recommendations, but I don't seem them in quite so dire terms, and I don't think most architects in this city see them that way either. That said, there's a lot more to talk about regarding the DRP, and we'll do so soon…
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jje1000
Senior Member
Some beautiful renders, but still too much density and the drop-off lane is problematic in creating a permeable and pedestrian-scaled groundplan- I would much rather see one of the towers in the northern part of the site turned into a square. Moreso, I wished they'd carry the designs of the towers down to the ground floor itself, especially that of the corner tower which is the best of the lot. I also hope they use some more colourful materials as it also does feel a bit sterile at this time.
What we don't know yet is what kind of pedestrian passage is being proposed for ground level, or below ground for that matter too.
At ground level there may very well be a covered arcade leading diagonally through to the courtyard from the northwest, maybe an internal mall.
We do know that there is a PATH extension proposed to connect through underground from 45 Bay, so if that enters the complex at the northwest corner as well, maybe we will even get a two storey mall-type walkway in there.
And certainly if the (mainly) residential and retail north half of the development has a PATH connection, you can be certain that the climate control will extend under Harbour Street to the south half too where there is significant office space proposed, and what looks like a giant skylight over presumably a mall space there.
In the end I am willing to bet that the residential, office, retail, and hotel components here are of a critical mass to create animated areas both on the exterior at ground level—along the perimeter and in the courtyard—and below ground in climate controlled areas as well. This development will be right on the way for people from Pier 27 heading into the Financial Core as well as those coming from redevelopment of the LCBO lands to the east.
I just can't see this being an area we will have any trouble filling with people. I'm more with the area residents in my belief that the area will be flooded with them. It's just that I think it will be a good thing!
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Michael62
Active Member
I wonder if the LCBO will move into this space with their head office on the upper podium floors and a giant flagship LCBO retail on the ground floor. They have to go somewhere when their present property is sold and demolished. I wouldn't be surprised to see Pinnacle purchasing the LCBO property in the future
Michael62
Active Member
If you look at the plans for the Queen's Quay East Streetcar, the portal to connect with Bay Street Streetcar tunnel, starts at Freeland Street continues (underground) in front of 'TheStar' This makes it entirely possible to have an underground station connected right to these buildings
wmedia
Senior Member
I love everything about this proposal, except the fact that cars appear to be driving on the wrong side of the road on Yonge Street in one of the renders! I wonder if a fellow Brit was involved? 
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
This building is exciting. It reminds me of a Hong Kong mega-MTR development, mostly in a good way. Those things would make Jane Jacobs turn around in her grave but, frankly, I think they have their place. Even if you're a diehard, organic urbanist you can admire these buildings as a faraway backdrop the way the vista to the CN tower makes Kensington market feel that much more urban.
MrSocky
New Member
I absolutely love it! Definitely getting the Hong Kong vibe, which isn't a bad thing. My favourite part has to be how every building offers a different style, yet they all manage to work together nicely.
bmiller
Active Member
The nimby's I was referring to are the local residents, a lot of who live in high rises, just not as high as the proposal.
It's a large city that is quickly evolving, but a lot of people want to keep the status quo. They'll have to get over it.
Zeiss
Active Member
I am local resident and I like the project. My question is, how those thousands of new people are going to move around ? The traffic is horrible as it is, without even the new buildings finished and occupied.
44 North
Senior Member
How is it that people can support a proposal which seems to go against most common knowledge of both urban decay, urban renewal failures, and intelligent planning?
To the supporters: So a total of 433 stories spread over six buildings is okay? But how would you feel about an alternative scenario of twenty 20-storey buildings? All built at the same time, all by the same designers. Doesn't sound so great, does it? Just picturing that can remind people of Soviet microdistricts (blocks), the failures of mid-20C urban renewal efforts, the ghettos they created, the poor integration with the city, and the demolition of these slums across the US, Great Britain, and even in places like Regent Park.
It does seem like a slippery slope argument to say these will end up as slums. But the reality is that even in their "prime" location the buildings are poorly integrated, are next to a crumbling elevated highway, and more than likely will be designed to exclude families. It's a ghetto in the making.
On top of this all, it's a mammoth megaproject and is too insanely large for Toronto. It's bound to cost the city more than any property taxes it will bring in, and it's bound to fail.
To the supporters: So a total of 433 stories spread over six buildings is okay? But how would you feel about an alternative scenario of twenty 20-storey buildings? All built at the same time, all by the same designers. Doesn't sound so great, does it? Just picturing that can remind people of Soviet microdistricts (blocks), the failures of mid-20C urban renewal efforts, the ghettos they created, the poor integration with the city, and the demolition of these slums across the US, Great Britain, and even in places like Regent Park.
It does seem like a slippery slope argument to say these will end up as slums. But the reality is that even in their "prime" location the buildings are poorly integrated, are next to a crumbling elevated highway, and more than likely will be designed to exclude families. It's a ghetto in the making.
On top of this all, it's a mammoth megaproject and is too insanely large for Toronto. It's bound to cost the city more than any property taxes it will bring in, and it's bound to fail.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
44 North:
To be honest though, eyeballing the site in question I think it is only 1/6 the size of Regent Park North - and given the site will be subdivided into two even smaller blocks, the development in question hardly comparable to the planning mistakes of the 50s/60s.
AoD
To be honest though, eyeballing the site in question I think it is only 1/6 the size of Regent Park North - and given the site will be subdivided into two even smaller blocks, the development in question hardly comparable to the planning mistakes of the 50s/60s.
AoD
Big Daddy
Senior Member
That's got to be the single most negative, over the top, run for the hills, the sky is falling, comment I have ever read on UT. If someone were to ask me where in Canada I would build a project of this scale I would say;
Downtown in a large progressive city with verve and resolve, (Toronto)
Close to a major transportation centre (Union Station)
Close to a major highway (Gardiner)
Within a region of similar office and condo developments
I think downtown Toronto is ideal for this type and scale of development and hope it is approved with little change.