zang said:
Translation: I'm smarter than everyone, including those who've decided to keep the building going. They should be listening to me because I'm smart. Did I say the word "fraud" yet? "Fraud".
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A less informed response I’ve yet to see. The people who’ve “decided to keep the building going” are poised to lose hundreds of millions and are frantically trying to mitigate their losses, in vain in my opinion.

Go ahead and pretend that this project isn’t the biggest failure in Toronto condo history and that it isn’t fraught with insane “irregularities”. With that ignorant attitude and perspective on the business you surely must be a pensioned civil servant.
 
Tesla said:
A less informed response I’ve yet to see. The people who’ve “decided to keep the building going” are poised to lose hundreds of millions and are frantically trying to mitigate their losses, in vain in my opinion.
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I wonder why you think anyone would "decide to keep the building going" knowing that they'd be losing hundreds of millions. Do you know more about the finances of the building than these people who are invested heavily in the finances of this building?

Tesla said:
Go ahead and pretend that this project isn’t the biggest failure in Toronto condo history and that it isn’t fraught with insane “irregularities”. With that ignorant attitude and perspective on the business you surely must be a pensioned civil servant.
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No one here is pretending as though The One is the best thing in Toronto condo history. Most everyone accepts that there a deep financial problems with the project and that Mizrahi has been mis-managing it to the nth degree.

What you fail to understand is that this thread is here to enjoy the construction process of this building. This is literally the first time a super tall 300m+ building is under construction in Toronto. That's what most rest of us are here for.

If you want to continue to deride and bash Mizrahi, feel free to create a different thread and title the thread appropriately. Here are some title suggestions:
"How Mizrahi killed the luxury condo market in Toronto"
"Mizrahi is the worst thing that happened to Toronto"
"How could people ignore how blatantly fraudy Mizrahi is in everything he does"

Have at it.
 
Tesla said:
Go ahead and pretend that this project isn’t the biggest failure in Toronto condo history and that it isn’t fraught with insane “irregularities”.
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You keep making that assertion without a shred of evidence it seems. Because two things that stands out here with this claim that are not adding up. First, is how do you know this is this project is the biggest failure in Toronto's condo history? That is, what are you comparing this too? The other, is that it's very clear to the rest of us that the building is still being constructed at a fairly intensive pace, which has not wavered since the receivership business was announced. One would expect that all construction would cease to exist and the remains of it would be shuttered indefinitely if it was actually the biggest failure of all Toronto's time. Where other big projects that have fallen short on their financing, have fared much worse than what's happening now...

...so let me posit another reason: Your rabid hatred for all things Mizrahi might be clouding your judgement here. And you're having a clear case of "Stop liking what I don't like!" This is not asking you to like Mizrahi or this project, but to be more honest about it...instead of saying things that aren't really true, because it's not helping here, IMO. As it feels you are gaslighting a reality that's not really happening. At all.
 
Tesla said:
A less informed response I’ve yet to see. The people who’ve “decided to keep the building going” are poised to lose hundreds of millions and are frantically trying to mitigate their losses, in vain in my opinion.

Go ahead and pretend that this project isn’t the biggest failure in Toronto condo history and that it isn’t fraught with insane “irregularities”. With that ignorant attitude and perspective on the business you surely must be a pensioned civil servant.
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Sure. List what's criminal then.

Also, not pensioned, not a civil servant. But if we're making uneducated guesses about people, I bet you're really, *really* into Crypto and a Musk-stan.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
You keep making that assertion without a shred of evidence it seems. Because two things that stands out here with this claim that are not adding up. First, is how do you know this is this project is the biggest failure in Toronto's condo history?
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Basic math.

To say that the project has been delayed and faced challenges would be an understatement," says the filing. "The original construction budget has already been materially exceeded. The most recent budgets, based on the Borrower’s latest construction schedule and commitments and cost data to May 31, 2023, reflect anticipated gross project expenditures in excess of $2 billion, an amount that exceeds the costs projected in 2019 by more than $600 million."
 
Tesla said:
Basic math.

To say that the project has been delayed and faced challenges would be an understatement," says the filing. "The original construction budget has already been materially exceeded. The most recent budgets, based on the Borrower’s latest construction schedule and commitments and cost data to May 31, 2023, reflect anticipated gross project expenditures in excess of $2 billion, an amount that exceeds the costs projected in 2019 by more than $600 million."
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If you are in the construction industry you would know that the cost of building anything in 2023 is up by 40-50% from 2019 prices, that's just a reality in our industry.
 
And as previously mentioned no construction project. Even a custom home comes in at budget. There are unforeseen things it could have been that they had to change concrete mixes from the original plans which were budgeted. It could be that they switched steel companies. It could be that the price of rebar went up since the budget was made. The budget for this building was made over 10 years ago. Everything is more than 50%. More expensive as previously mentioned, 600 million on a project. This size being over budget is actually small given that overruns I have seen on similar projects both throughout the world and in Canada have seen much higher over runs. I will start to get concerned if it reaches 2 billion and furthermore this project for some people isn't about the cost or anything. It is like watching the empire state building go up. It is something we haven't seen before and we are enjoying the show and workmanship of all of the fine craftsmen involved
 
Tesla said:
Basic math.

To say that the project has been delayed and faced challenges would be an understatement," says the filing. "The original construction budget has already been materially exceeded. The most recent budgets, based on the Borrower’s latest construction schedule and commitments and cost data to May 31, 2023, reflect anticipated gross project expenditures in excess of $2 billion, an amount that exceeds the costs projected in 2019 by more than $600 million."
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Have you looked at the concord sky site? The same plans have had 3 developers. The actual project was 200 million in debt before they even got the The slab on grade poured. They also ignored a stop work order for the better part of 3 months. So to sit here and say this is the worst project in Toronto. Even at this time is false but concord sky has had his trouble and will get built the same as this building will. We are just people watching buildings go up. That is what we enjoy doing and having a conversation about it. We don't like the bash too much on developers because we don't know what they're going through the hate I see you direct towards this developer is almost as if you have been hurt. Personally, that's not what we are about. We like to critique but at the end of the day we are just observers not jurors
 
People can absolutely hold multiple views simultaneously (that aren’t even in conflict!):
  • There was probably unorthodox financing. (Illegal? I’ve no idea.)
  • The project was mismanaged.
  • The project will probably lose money.
  • Don’t want another stump.
  • Excited to see a well-designed building be constructed in Toronto.
  • Excited to see a super tall be built.
This is why it just…annoying…to keep harping in the mismanagement and money loss. Great - the project was mismanaged and will probably lose money. I don’t care; just want to see the damn thing completed.
 
Tesla said:
Basic math.

To say that the project has been delayed and faced challenges would be an understatement," says the filing. "The original construction budget has already been materially exceeded. The most recent budgets, based on the Borrower’s latest construction schedule and commitments and cost data to May 31, 2023, reflect anticipated gross project expenditures in excess of $2 billion, an amount that exceeds the costs projected in 2019 by more than $600 million."
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....this absolutely proves nothing of your claim, actually, arithmetically or otherwise. All this says without context or citation that this project exceeds a large sum of money and that's it. As well as, there is lots of projects out there with large cost over runs, which are rarely consider failures. /shrug
 
Nov 10 -
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UtakataNoAnnex said:
....this absolutely proves nothing of your claim, actually, arithmetically or otherwise. All this says without context or citation that this project exceeds a large sum of money and that's it. As well as, there is lots of projects out there with large cost over runs, which are rarely consider failures. /shrug
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Tell me you don’t work in the condo development world without telling me you don’t work in the condo development world.
 
Tesla said:
Tell me you don’t work in the condo development world without telling me you don’t work in the condo development world.
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...that's not the proof of your claim I am looking for either, lol. Which is more telling you don't actually have that...and just making things up because you don't like Mizrahi. Enough already!

Edit/Note: Yeah, I'm going to debate this person over this anymore...as I don't want to end up on everyone's /ignore list in doing so. It's pretty much a dead horse topic until something drastically changes again. So I'm going let Tesla think whatever they want to think on this, stop feeding them...and move on here. My apologies for extending this debate more than it probably should. /bows
 
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