[howl]

Hmmm... Besides, shouldn't both lines going to all day service not to mention the three others not named Lakeshore be of equal importance?

Lakeshore already has all day service. GO's goal is to have all the main lines on two-way all-day service. The only hold up is lack of infrastructure. They need to build new infrastructure, including laying new parallel tracks in may places, in order to have their own independent lines not subject to freight traffic delays. The "race" between the Milton Line and the Georgetown Line is more about where they are going to spend their money first.

 

[dowlingm]

Expensive grade separations needed on Barrie (CP North Toronto) and Richmond Hill (CN York) plus Metrolinx don't own the RH line north of there either. Also, the LSE and LSW will have a major depot each which at least some of the service elsewhere will be staged out of.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Lakeshore East doesn't have a train depot, though it is getting one. Lakeshore Wests yard also holds the trains for several of the other lines.

My major concern with 15 minute costs is the cost of grade separations, with hourly service it is easy enough to justify not doing them but with 15 minute service they are needed much more badly on many streets.

Going through the lines, a brief look at satellite imagery nets me this amount of at grade crossings to eliminate if you were to run the 15 minute service to the previously planned ends of AD2W service:

Stouffville to Mount Joy: 14 separations, 1 at grade crossing and 4 closures

Richmond Hill to, well, Richmond Hill: 3 separations, 1 closure, 1 junction separation

Barrie to East Gwillimbury: 17 separations, 2 closures, 2 remaining at grade crossings, and 1 junction separation.

Kitchener to Mount Pleasant: 2 to get it to Mount Pleasant, and additional 21 separations, 13 closures, and 4 remaining at grade (Most of these are just farm driveways) to get it to Kitchener. If HSR happens even those 4 driveways would need a separation or closure of some kind.

Milton to Lisgar: 6 separations, 2 closures, 3 remaining at grade crossings.

 

[dunkalunk]

Lakeshore East doesn't have a train depot, though it is getting one. Lakeshore Wests yard also holds the trains for several of the other lines.

My major concern with 15 minute costs is the cost of grade separations, with hourly service it is easy enough to justify not doing them but with 15 minute service they are needed much more badly on many streets.

Going through the lines, a brief look at satellite imagery nets me this amount of at grade crossings to eliminate if you were to run the 15 minute service to the previously planned ends of AD2W service:

Stouffville to Mount Joy: 14 separations, 1 at grade crossing and 4 closures

Richmond Hill to, well, Richmond Hill: 3 separations, 1 closure, 1 junction separation

Barrie to East Gwillimbury: 17 separations, 2 closures, 2 remaining at grade that can't be closed but aren't really worth grade separating, and 1 junction separation.

Kitchener to Mount Pleasant: 2 to get it to Mount Pleasant, and additional 21 separations, 13 closures, and 4 that shouldn't close but aren't worth separating. (Most of these are just farm driveways) to get it to Kitchener.

Milton to Lisgar: 6 separations, 2 closures, 3 that aren't really worth it but can't / shouldn't be closed.

Have a map of these somewhere?

 

[innsertnamehere]

not really, just went and counted them on google earth quickly and made a rough guess if they could be closed, kept, or separated. rural back roads, local roads, etc. got closed, major arterial got seperated, and low traffic stubs that are the only access roads to some property or something similar were kept as they wouldn't be worth separating but can't be closed either.

 

[ElChico]

View attachment 25210Some at the Brampton Heritage Society are becoming vocally against the LRT on Main st.

Alternatives are being tossed around like:

http://www.scribblemaps.com/api/maps/images/450/450/LcCLsA4Hul.png

It goes near Sheridan and FCC along Steeles, Mclaughlin and the old rail line.

 

[blu333]

View attachment 25210Some at the Brampton Heritage Society are becoming vocally against the LRT on Main st.

Alternatives are being tossed around like:

http://www.scribblemaps.com/api/maps/images/450/450/LcCLsA4Hul.png

It goes near Sheridan and FCC along Steeles, Mclaughlin and the old rail line.

YUUUPPP!!!

If this happens, then that's the time I'd truly believe BRAMPTON is clearly thinking about BRAMPTON!

- this would preserve the downtown heritage, which is one of the few treasures of Brampton
Which would make a lot of downtowners happy, ( free the downtown from congestion )
- This will hit Sheridan college hopefully soon to become a university (imagine the possibilities and benefits)
Connecting the Go train and LRT passing through a UNIVERSITY.......WOW!
- Steeles avenue will benefit (which is also a high density route)
- there's a lot more land for potential development areas along McLaughlin
- this will pass along Brampton fairgrounds ( which if developed would become an icon for the city as well)
- more residential areas can benefit from the LRT via this route
- and a lot more

This will create huge potential for Brampton and BRAMPTONians ! Until that time, I see the LRT is a Mississauga plan and brampton is just there for the Ride!

 

[TOareaFan]

YUUUPPP!!!

If this happens, then that's the time I'd truly believe BRAMPTON is clearly thinking about BRAMPTON!

- this would preserve the downtown heritage, which is one of the few treasures of Brampton
Which would make a lot of downtowners happy, ( free the downtown from congestion )
- This will hit Sheridan college hopefully soon to become a university (imagine the possibilities and benefits)
Connecting the Go train and LRT passing through a UNIVERSITY.......WOW!
- Steeles avenue will benefit (which is also a high density route)
- there's a lot more land for potential development areas along McLaughlin
- this will pass along Brampton fairgrounds ( which if developed would become an icon for the city as well)
- more residential areas can benefit from the LRT via this route
- and a lot more

This will create huge potential for Brampton and BRAMPTONians ! Until that time, I see the LRT is a Mississauga plan and brampton is just there for the Ride!

mmmmm.....

Serving Sheridan which may become a university....well it is not clear that it would stay where it is and the city has stated that as well as supporting sheridan's application for university status they also want a new stand alone university campus....so not sure that is the win you are looking for.

Not clear to me there is any development potential going north on McLaughlin on from Steeles.

The fairgrounds moved to Caledon years ago......but if you are talking about the old fairgrounds at Memorial arena.....well those are the same lands that caused a NIMBY furor last year when they dared to bring in people for a couple of weeks of the Junior Women's World Softball tournament.....this route and any development you think will come from it will meet with much stronger NIMBY resistance than the current route is seeing from the BHS.

I am on record for questioning the northern/Brampton portion of this line.....for fiscal/viability/ridership matters (although if there is going to be 15 minute GO service on all the GO rail lines I start to soften my opposition as it now has real connectivity purposes)....but if it is going to be built the only route that makes any sense is straight up Main Street.....find a way to satisfy the folks worried about historical preservation that this won't ruin what is there (it won't)....maybe a real or virtual trip on Luas would show them that new technology does not mean the end to history.....and get it done on that route or not at all.

 

[ElChico]

One of the main areas talked about for university expansion is FCC which would be served by this route. The two jails take a lot of space and could be redeveloped long term, plus, the Davis Campus has ~4000 Students, it's not going anywhere in the near term.

 

[ShonTron]

I am on record for questioning the northern/Brampton portion of this line.....for fiscal/viability/ridership matters (although if there is going to be 15 minute GO service on all the GO rail lines I start to soften my opposition as it now has real connectivity purposes)....but if it is going to be built the only route that makes any sense is straight up Main Street.....find a way to satisfy the folks worried about historical preservation that this won't ruin what is there (it won't)....maybe a real or virtual trip on Luas would show them that new technology does not mean the end to history.....and get it done on that route or not at all.

The Brampton Historical Society sounds like a front for Main Street NIMBYs who think a four lane road with plenty of buses (BT/Zum and GO) is fine and dandy, but to put down rails is an affront to the neighourhood's heritage. Bull crap.

Dam Square, the heart of Amsterdam, and the seat of the Dutch Royal Family (officially; the royals live in a palace outside the city) has plenty of overhead wires and rails; tram tracks surround the Palace.

Main Street isn't that impressive; south of Gage Park has some nice Victorian and Edwardian houses, most well set back from the street. The old 1867 courthouse (the nicest building on Main Street) is set back as well with a treed lawn in front. The remaining Victorian and Edwardian storefronts on Main Street aren't that special.

And overhead wire and spanwire aren't a big deal - and even in this case, the proponents are caving by planning to use battery packs to allow short off-wire capability through the stretch. It's total garbage.

 

[gweed123]

One of the main areas talked about for university expansion is FCC which would be served by this route. The two jails take a lot of space and could be redeveloped long term, plus, the Davis Campus has ~4000 Students, it's not going anywhere in the near term.

The McLaughlin alignment is interesting. As you mentioned, the potential redevelopment of the jail sites, with an LRT as an anchor, could be pretty promising. Also, the land contained within the boundaries of the rail corridor to be used for the LRT, the main rail corridor, Main St, and Queen St is ripe for redevelopment. The section closer to Main is already seeing it, but putting the LRT further west could provide a catalyst.

Realistically, the number of redevelopment opportunities north of Steeles along Main is pretty limited. This may be an idea worth considering.

 

[drum118]

The McLaughlin alignment is interesting. As you mentioned, the potential redevelopment of the jail sites, with an LRT as an anchor, could be pretty promising. Also, the land contained within the boundaries of the rail corridor to be used for the LRT, the main rail corridor, Main St, and Queen St is ripe for redevelopment. The section closer to Main is already seeing it, but putting the LRT further west could provide a catalyst.

Realistically, the number of redevelopment opportunities north of Steeles along Main is pretty limited. This may be an idea worth considering.

The amount of land between Steeles and Downtown Brampton is very limit for development, but there are a number of site downtown that could off set it and if people took their blinders off and see what the downtown is in the first place.

There is a 7 story senior building propose at the south=west end of the creek on Hurontario now with construction to start shortly.

There is nothing stopping a branch line off the mainline as proposed, but a lot over estimating what that branch line will do or not do.

The Brampton Historical Society is barking up the wrong tree to maintain the area as historical and keeping the LRT out when they fail to understand the area is being kill more by cars than the LRT will do. At the same time, the LRT will carry more riders through the area at reduce headway than cars will every do.

Taking to a few people after listening to Gil Penalosa who was speaking at the Rose Theater on Wed, they are running for Regional Council and support the LRT not only to the Downtown as plan, but to Mayfield as I recommended in 2008 and on my master plan in 2006. Gil Penalosa hit all my buttons as he was saying what I have being saying these past 13 years.

The rail corridor can come back in a different form that it was before and if so, it will have operation issues down the road to widening the corridor and putting in more track in it.

 

[ShonTron]

The McLaughlin alignment is interesting. As you mentioned, the potential redevelopment of the jail sites, with an LRT as an anchor, could be pretty promising. Also, the land contained within the boundaries of the rail corridor to be used for the LRT, the main rail corridor, Main St, and Queen St is ripe for redevelopment. The section closer to Main is already seeing it, but putting the LRT further west could provide a catalyst.

Realistically, the number of redevelopment opportunities north of Steeles along Main is pretty limited. This may be an idea worth considering.

The jails - at least the recently constructed Youth Centre - aren't really going anywhere. While Main Street follows Etobicoke Creek closely, McLaughlin follows Fletcher's Creek and apart from the Ontario lands, there isn't much in the way of development opportunities there either. It's a rather lengthy jog to appease a bunch of unreasonable homeowners.

The seniors residence is going in at Charolais and Main, and the Brampton Mall lands at Main and Nanwood are an interesting redevelopment opportunity. The City of Brampton is rezoning Shoppers World to allow more diverse uses, including residential towers on part of the property.

 

[ElChico]

The Brampton Historical Society sounds like a front for Main Street NIMBYs who think a four lane road with plenty of buses (BT/Zum and GO) is fine and dandy, but to put down rails is an affront to the neighourhood's heritage. Bull crap.

Dam Square, the heart of Amsterdam, and the seat of the Dutch Royal Family (officially; the royals live in a palace outside the city) has plenty of overhead wires and rails; tram tracks surround the Palace.

Main Street isn't that impressive; south of Gage Park has some nice Victorian and Edwardian houses, most well set back from the street. The old 1867 courthouse (the nicest building on Main Street) is set back as well with a treed lawn in front. The remaining Victorian and Edwardian storefronts on Main Street aren't that special.

And overhead wire and spanwire aren't a big deal - and even in this case, the proponents are caving by planning to use battery packs to allow short off-wire capability through the stretch. It's total garbage.

The BHS has been around since the 90's, they are a legit group that has saved the dominion clock tower and the CPR station among other things.

If you read their position you would see that wires are not the issue. This section of Main street wasn't going to have wires. Their issues are more 'character' of the street. signage, traffic patterns, noise, etc.

 

[innsertnamehere]

noise? why would they have noise concerns? Traffic patterns are far from "historical", and signage can easily be modified to reflect the "historic" character.