[Tim MacDonald]

Construction update:

Utility work is happening on Hurontario ahead of the new LRT - Metrolinx News

How utility work along Hurontario Street will help support communities in the future. Making sure utilities are working properly is a big part of the puzzle as construction progresses on the Hazel McCallion Line (also known as the Hurontario LRT). Crews are upgrading and relocating utilities...

blog.metrolinx.com

 

[superelevation]

I think people need to stop with the Hyperbole about cities not having elevated rail etc. Eglinton has some elevated sections, the OL will too including through some pretty affluent areas (embankment adjacent to GO).

The idea that Mississauga could NOT get anything better than a tram seems odd, Toronto is currently getting 4 different new subway projects built, Surrey (a smaller city) is getting SkyTrain (Richmond, Coquitlam etc. already have), Laval has Metro and Brossard etc are getting REM. It feels like a reverse justification, now that Miss. has tram - it couldn't have done better. Despite the evidence.

No one said there are zero elevated lines in cities. The question is if they are desirable. The fact that we can’t build them in Toronto should tell you they are not as marketable as you think they are. When a lot of people think of elevated transit right fully or wrongfully they think of movies from New York City, Philly, Chicago where people live in gritty apartments beside a elevated line and every time the train passes the apartment almost shakes.

...

Ok, but we all know that isn't representative of any modern project, so why say this . . . we have local examples to point to. This is a forum with fairly worldly people and folks should aim for better examples.

I don’t think you’re going to like my answer. I believe the upgrade is to say we are prioritizing hurontario. We might not be able to afford a subway but surely we can do better than a bus. When transit city was being discussed there was several surveys which basically all showed that people preferred rail transit because of comfort and their own bias that it felt more upscale. While busses simply had a poor image surrounding them. Also the studies showed that development often came when rails where introduced because people saw rail as permanent where as a bus lane could easily be given back to a car. So to answer your question I believe the lrt was chosen for aesthetics, peoples preference, development just as much as what mode would actually move people. I don’t think it’s a complete gentrification project but that said hurontario is booming with applications now that the line is almost in. And for a city that is trying to identify itself I don’t actually think that is a bad thing.

As above the suggestion that Miss. couldn't afford a subway seems to assume the only thing one could consider "subway" is a deep tunnel with 6 car Toronto rockets - which isn't what Surrey or Montreal area is getting.

You don't need grade separation to go at a good speed. I know because I lived in a city that had good tram service. Separated ROW, prioritized signals, and reasonable stop spacing (which I think this LRT has) equals convenient, comfortable and fast travel. Faster than a car? Probably not. But it's a good deal for people who don't want to worry about driving, or simply can't.

I'm not a fan of grade-separating everything, unless there is a major lack of space on the surface. Having to walk up or down stairs, or take elevators, is a barrier, both physical and psychological. I, and many people, would rather just hop on at street level. Hurontario is a stroad not lacking in space (except at a couple of choke points). Its space just needs to be better used, which is what the LRT does.
...

I don't understand. Mississauga has to start somewhere. I'd love to see more rail lines in the future. Putting this convenient train at eye level will do more to encourage ridership and desire for more lines than would some kind of elevated monstrosity eyesore expensive gaffe.

I get and have argued the "more comfortable and time efficient (because you can read)" argument, but the reason transit currently and likely into the future plays second fiddle to the car in places like Mississauga is precisely because it is so non competitive with driving, we can't expect to become more transit oriented when our main market it people who can't drive or mind it so much they are willing to go much slower.
Anyways, ultimately - the suggestion that this will do more to encourage ridership seems diametrically opposed to ridership data where Vancouver wildly outpaces most US LRT networks even though it is a smaller city and has less stations. I'm all for comfortable streets and the like - I love my time in AMS and COP, but I do not think Eglinton East and much less Hurontario will ever be that kind of environment.

 

[T3G]

Let us consider the reality of Mississauga transit: right now, it has nothing but buses providing local transit (and not transit which is terribly impressive in my book). Any kind of elevated or underground line would add more to the construction costs, and therefore take away money from any other potential projects that could serve other communities. Mississauga should focus on getting their network up to scratch for a city half its size before worrying about higher order transit. Any discussion at this current point in the game about higher order transit in Mississauga would be akin to Toronto building the Yonge Subway while everything else was served by horse drawn carts.

 

[ARG1]

Let us consider the reality of Mississauga transit: right now, it has nothing but buses providing local transit (and not transit which is terribly impressive in my book). Any kind of elevated or underground line would add more to the construction costs, and therefore take away money from any other potential projects that could serve other communities. Mississauga should focus on getting their network up to scratch for a city half its size before worrying about higher order transit. Any discussion at this current point in the game about higher order transit in Mississauga would be akin to Toronto building the Yonge Subway while everything else was served by horse drawn carts.

So Quantity over Quality? Interesting tactic...

 

[T3G]

Quantity over Quality? Interesting tactic...

In a city starved for transit, a slightly shittier tram that saves money and leaves more for others is the way, yes.

 

[afransen]

Let us consider the reality of Mississauga transit: right now, it has nothing but buses providing local transit (and not transit which is terribly impressive in my book). Any kind of elevated or underground line would add more to the construction costs, and therefore take away money from any other potential projects that could serve other communities. Mississauga should focus on getting their network up to scratch for a city half its size before worrying about higher order transit. Any discussion at this current point in the game about higher order transit in Mississauga would be akin to Toronto building the Yonge Subway while everything else was served by horse drawn carts.

Indeed. HuLRT funds should have been used to develop a network of BRT lines: In addition to Hurontario and Dundas, lines on Eglinton, Winston Churchill, Lakeshore, Britannia. Provide fast, frequent service over most of the area of Mississauga and wait to upgrade the busiest corridors when the ridership has been developed. There is an opportunity to re-align the location of the Milton Line GO stations to better align to this network of BRT lines. Something to consider for if/when Milton Line gets frequent GO service.

 

[Sunnyside]

The reality is, if we didn't just commit to the LRT, we'd be twiddling our thumbs for another 20-30 years. Everyone recognizes the transit we are building here could and should be better; I think we all would have preferred an elevated line or a full subway or a light metro. But, last I checked there is no subway in Mississauga, and if we scrapped the LRT early on to identify something better, Mississauga would be back at Square One. These LRT lines being built are a product of our own decisions as a region to delay building transit iteratively when it was first needed, and now we are at the point where something, anything, is better than wasting more time and hindering the economy. If Mississauga wants a subway, it should go all-in on making the Milton Line of RER quality, with a diversion to Square One and infill stations to boot. Anything else is just not going to happen.

I find it strange that arguments keep circling back to poking holes in our current plans; they are a product of doing exactly that for far too long.

 

[drum118]

So Quantity over Quality? Interesting tactic...

Its the Mickey Mouse transit system theses day and haven't change in 20 years. The ratio has gone up from 13% to 15% over those 20 years while the city has grown from 300,000 to 800,000.

The LRT will only improve transit a small amount city wide as it will only be a feeder line for a few routes and still hard to get from one area to another.

The LRT will drive redevelopment along Hurontario that will ad density to the corridor as well a few other routes.

Mississauga doesn't have the ridership to support an 2 car subway train let alone a 6 car one.

When I first recommend an LRT/Monorail for Hurontario back in 2003, I call for ridership at 100,000 by 2040 considering it was 23,000 then and the highest ridership route.

In 2005, call for 5 more LRT by 2040 if ridership ratio grow from 13% to 30%.

The last number used for ridership was in 2019 that was 88 million boarding for 2018.

If Ratio was at 20-30% now with a city of 800,000, then ridership should be 160,000-240,000 a year or 124-200 million boarding on the low side.

Those who call for elevated or subway lines understand how ppl travel within Mississauga as well where the bulk of ridership travel to/from in the first place??

 

[afransen]

The reality is, if we didn't just commit to the LRT, we'd be twiddling our thumbs for another 20-30 years. Everyone recognizes the transit we are building here could and should be better; I think we all would have preferred an elevated line or a full subway or a light metro. But, last I checked there is no subway in Mississauga, and if we scrapped the LRT early on to identify something better, Mississauga would be back at Square One. These LRT lines being built are a product of our own decisions as a region to delay building transit iteratively when it was first needed, and now we are at the point where something, anything, is better than wasting more time and hindering the economy. If Mississauga wants a subway, it should go all-in on making the Milton Line of RER quality, with a diversion to Square One and infill stations to boot. Anything else is just not going to happen.

I find it strange that arguments keep circling back to poking holes in our current plans; they are a product of doing exactly that for far too long.

The first 'subway' in Mississauga is going to be the Lakeshore line. It will be pretty fast and frequent. I hear 5 minute frequencies are possible.

The LRT was mostly a vanity project. Agreed that upgrading Milton Line would/should have been higher priority than a Hurontario 'subway' or light metro or LRT.

Those who call for elevated or subway lines understand how ppl travel within Mississauga as well where the bulk of ridershipIt avel to/from in the first place??

It should have been BRT for now and eventually a light metro. The connection between Kitchener, Milton and Lakeshore GO lines would have had useful network effects if it were faster. But for that matter, a BRT corridor would enable express GO buses to connect them.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

September 18th update:

Crews are pushing hard and were working this morning on the push box when I rolled past on my way to work, I don't know if the Thanksgiving weekend @drum118 mentioned quite some time ago is still achievable for the installation or if there is a new date but I have seen them working on sundays for the last little while. Northbound Hurontario to west QEW is quite the mess and there is really no need for it. I don't understand why they have a left turn only arrow for that intersection when there is only one lane southbound. Additionally, that arrow has been shortened and only four cars made it through on one light. I used to take that ramp everyday pre-covid and understood why they made it arrow only after people couldn't differentiate through southbound traffic from traffic that was entering the highway and a lot of people got smoked there. But now, there is no need and this really needs to be changed!

 

[drum118]

Sept18
I have sent in an inquiry in on a number of things with Thanksgiving Weekend being one of them. When I shot the QEW last week, it looked then as well earlier that the Thanksgiving move will not take place as plan. The above photos show this late move.

Look at the Port Credit box that was to take place in April as it still waiting to happen today.

Sandstone Dr intersection is to reopen Sept 29 and that may not happen based on what I saw today. Both Sandstone Dr and Watline Ave intersections were to be close Sept 8-28 for building the guideway across them including the rails. Today see only Watline Ave Intersection 95% complete and should be finish and open next this coming week. Sandstone Intersection has the base of the guideway pour and working on the planter walls in the centre up to the intersection.

Can placing the rebar mats on top of the guideway with the ties on top of it as well the rails and encase in concrete be done 28 including the paving?? Going to be a tight time window that will mostly be miss by a few days.

The area north of Sandstone intersection looks like it will see crossovers as the planter box is well north of the intersection

There are centre walls being pour north of the 401 that will not see the same type of planters to the south. The north section is ready to have the guideway base pour once forming is done for it.

Top Flight has been widen to support the guideway, but only using the old road at this time.

The guideway base from the 407 bus terminal to the OSM is 99% pour with most of the inbound track mat place as well ties on it. Grove rail place on the curb in 2 places with a gap between them until a hydro pole is relocated as its in the centre of the track. Various foundations have been pour that will support the OS poles on each side of the guideway.

A number of pits have protection around them for the base to support the elevate section columns, including the centre of the 403

These are unedited photos as well a few of the many I shot today. No idea when they as will the others including my back log of photos from July 8-present will be done as will up loaded to my site

 

[felix123]

View attachment 427552View attachment 427553

Glad to see Hurontario is finally starting to look like something.

 

[drum118]

As expected, the QEW move will not happen Thanksgiving weekend as plan.

Not only is the box not ready, but other things for the move as well. It will happen either in October or Nov subject MTO approval. The box is the new northbound lanes with the LRT using the existing ones.

The QEW traffic will use the off/on ramps to get around the QEW closure. I have recommended that "NO" Hurontario traffic be allow to use any ramps during the closure as it will slow down the already slow moving QEW traffic. Better not use the QEW on the weekend closure and advise all the people you know as well as it will be backup for miles. I expect southbound closure will happen at the Queensway and northbound at the south service road or at the Lakeshore. Will not be surprise to see Hurontario also close at the South Service Rd as well The South Service Rd itself since it will interferer with the ramp use.

Watline intersection will reopen this week and Sandstone will open about a week or so late as expected based on what I saw on Sunday.

The box work at Port Credit will restart in Oct with no GO Rail service on the weekend where buses will be use. Not clear if one track will be open for VIA and Amtrak trains at this time or they will be using the CN Halton and Metrolinx Weston Sub. More info when a firm date is known.

Steeles station is still plan for the southside and to be move to the northside or anything Brampton wants for the Main St section will be on Brampton dime, as well when.

More to come.

 

[Mercury]

There's an interesting picture of the future LRT extending into Brampton in this video at 30:25.

It also shows the GO station expansion which suggests the south platform of Brampton GO Station built in the late 2000s will not be removed, but converted into a centre platform and the new third track will go to the south of it.

This answers my question from earlier:

I do wonder where they're going to squeeze it in, then. I guess the north portion of Brampton GO can be moved to accommodate a third track on that side?

Edit: Sorry, didn't read ShonTron's comment...
If it's going on the south side, won't they need to rebuild the south portion of the VIA/GO station, which they just built a few years ago?

 

[drum118]

There's an interesting picture of the future LRT extending into Brampton in this video at 30:25.

It also shows the GO station expansion which suggests the south platform of Brampton GO Station built in the late 2000s will not be removed, but converted into a centre platform and the new third track will go to the south of it.

This answers my question from earlier:

That's is why all the buildings for the southside to the street are being raze as well building a new BT/GO Bus Terminal