I suspect the additional signals and pedestrian crossings are Metrolinx's boneheaded way of responding to Council's directive to prioritize pedestrian safety and "complete streets," but I'm just guessing. This whole design has a distinct too-many-cooks feel to it: so many competing priorities and goals with no clear prioritization, and the result is a mess that won't satisfy anyone. And I'm not optimistic it can be fixed given the dysfunctions of Hamilton politics and the lack of leadership on this project.
 
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this current iteration is slower than existing bus services. the 10 B-line express currently does the route in ~34 minutes, depending on time of day.

The 2017 iteration of the LRT, with 11 fewer signalized crossings than the current iteration, was projected to have a 32-minute travel time. Infer what you will with that.
ok, but this thing will move 10x the number of people in probably the same amount of time.. and I know this has already been said far too many times. But the LRT isn't really a transit project, it's a slum clearing operation designed to encourage intensified development.
 
ok, but this thing will move 10x the number of people in probably the same amount of time.. and I know this has already been said far too many times. But the LRT isn't really a transit project, it's a slum clearing operation designed to encourage intensified development.
I agree with you, there's no practical reason why an LRT should move much faster than a bus given the same signal priority/roadspace. The goal of this project should be capacity, reliability, ride quality, as well as associated streetscape and public realm improvements. During congested periods it will be much faster by virtue of the dedicated lanes.
 
I agree with you, there's no practical reason why an LRT should move much faster than a bus given the same signal priority/roadspace. The goal of this project should be capacity, reliability, ride quality, as well as associated streetscape and public realm improvements. During congested periods it will be much faster by virtue of the dedicated lanes.
Rush hour the B line does Eastgate to McMaster in 37 minutes.

So if this iteration, theoretically, ends up around 35 minutes end to end, it is theoretically a bit faster, yes.

But you introduce transfer penalties if your destination isn't on the line.

Honestly my opinion is that we should generally be either building BRT networks or Metros and skipping these "LRT-lite" systems entirely. Or at the very least building actual LRTs more reminiscent of Calgary or Seattle with true priority and high run speeds. The Hamilton LRT is really more like a streetcar with dedicated lanes, especially with the huge number of signalized crossings all across the line.
 
I fully support LRT in Hamilton but this will lead to a traffic disaster in the west end. It is painfully obvious to me that the designers and those responsible for any decisions on this file do not live anywhere close to it and do not have experience driving this route. I almost hope that it dies the way it seems to with these continuous delays.
 
What does this forum think about building out the BLAST network in Hamilton all in one go vs B-line LRT then the rest of the network later.

edit to add my thoughts: Building BLAST all in one go will yield more short-term benefits. LRT has its advantages for the B-line compared to BRT but are those advantages worth sacrificing building out the entire BLAST network faster and saving money on the LRT. This isn't my field of expertise so I'm curious what this message board thinks.
 
What does this forum think about building out the BLAST network in Hamilton all in one go vs B-line LRT then the rest of the network later.

edit to add my thoughts: Building BLAST all in one go will yield more short-term benefits. LRT has its advantages for the B-line compared to BRT but are those advantages worth sacrificing building out the entire BLAST network faster and saving money on the LRT. This isn't my field of expertise so I'm curious what this message board thinks.
LRT is the way to go IMO. The city core needs a higher order transit backbone to enable the kind of development that the rest of the BLAST network would succeed off of. Without some sense of rail permanence Hamilton would feel like less of a cohesive city and more like a set of loosely connected regions.
 
I suspect the additional signals and pedestrian crossings are Metrolinx's boneheaded way of responding to Council's directive to prioritize pedestrian safety and "complete streets," but I'm just guessing. This whole design has a distinct too-many-cooks feel to it: so many competing priorities and goals with no clear prioritization, and the result is a mess that won't satisfy anyone. And I'm not optimistic it can be fixed given the dysfunctions of Hamilton politics and the lack of leadership on this project.
I actually disagree, Hamilton has made marked strides in road design in recent years and I’d sooner trust them than Metrolinx. You are exactly right that it’s too many cooks- it varies by which component, but for roads it’s not the locals. Other areas… yes.

The slip lane on Queen should not be there iirc. Darko’s hotel’s accommodation for one is either because of one that was there, was previously planned, or from the prior LRT’s plans. Unless I’m confusing with somewhere else.
Honestly my opinion is that we should generally be either building BRT networks or Metros and skipping these "LRT-lite" systems entirely. Or at the very least building actual LRTs more reminiscent of Calgary or Seattle with true priority and high run speeds. The Hamilton LRT is really more like a streetcar with dedicated lanes, especially with the huge number of signalized crossings all across the line.
The design in many spots does feel closer to a streetcar-it’s nimble when it wants to be. As it should, since I agree LRT is a Frankenstein for actual transit users. The development this will induce is crucial in the medium term, sure, but I don’t think I need to remind anyone that this (LRT) was as good as we were going to get.
….

Unfortunately Metrolinx and the City have taken enough time and land to build a subway, and added bells and whistles to justify those acquisitions. It’s part of why I think we could and should have justified a subway, i.e when the first LRT was kiboshed. Not a TTC 12-car behemoth, but a nimble c&c ‘light’ metro under the utility works happening anyway. I don’t think we’re locked out of such higher modes forever, but the LRT must be thought of only as step 1 for a transit-oriented Hammer.
 
What does this forum think about building out the BLAST network in Hamilton all in one go vs B-line LRT then the rest of the network later.

edit to add my thoughts: Building BLAST all in one go will yield more short-term benefits. LRT has its advantages for the B-line compared to BRT but are those advantages worth sacrificing building out the entire BLAST network faster and saving money on the LRT. This isn't my field of expertise so I'm curious what this message board thinks.
This implies that downsizing something like the B line to BRT would necessarily allow for all other lines to be immediately built. In general, priority should mainly be focused on serving core areas first, and worrying about outlying areas like Waterdown later. By that view, lines like the L line should really be at the bottom of the priority list.

The one thing I think we did miss out on though is building at least part of the A line to West Harbour. That station will quite soon become a core part of Hamilton's transport network, and not having even a BRT go there is a massive missed opportunity.
 
What does this forum think about building out the BLAST network in Hamilton all in one go vs B-line LRT then the rest of the network later.

edit to add my thoughts: Building BLAST all in one go will yield more short-term benefits. LRT has its advantages for the B-line compared to BRT but are those advantages worth sacrificing building out the entire BLAST network faster and saving money on the LRT. This isn't my field of expertise so I'm curious what this message board thinks.
This debate was had nearly two decades ago at city hall so I don’t blame you for asking. However, it’s not really an either-or. Much of BLAST is not ready for LRT, and a BRT-lite network is achievable shortly after. There is appetite for more transit, and BLAST will be forming first as an Express bus network. This should theoretically be online on day 1 of the LRT opening- a service plan now exists.

What would be an either/or is if we stick by
the province and their ideas of BRT, pushing up the cost and timeline of things like the A-Line. But I genuinely believe that as soon as our finances allow, we would sooner pursue a RapidTO approach. We have to rely on the province for now.
 
The one thing I think we did miss out on though is building at least part of the A line to West Harbour. That station will quite soon become a core part of Hamilton's transport network, and not having even a BRT go there is a massive missed opportunity.
James is a finicky corridor… anything N/S in the core is, really…
 
What does this forum think about building out the BLAST network in Hamilton all in one go vs B-line LRT then the rest of the network later.

edit to add my thoughts: Building BLAST all in one go will yield more short-term benefits. LRT has its advantages for the B-line compared to BRT but are those advantages worth sacrificing building out the entire BLAST network faster and saving money on the LRT. This isn't my field of expertise so I'm curious what this message board thinks.
There's a bit of a chicken vs egg situation here. The plan for the future of the HSR is to terminate all the non-express frequent mountain lines at West Harbour, which is a fantastic idea enabling a ton of 1-seat rides to GO, but will require abandoning the downtown bus hub at MacNab. Without the hub, you need something with a ton of capacity and frequency to pick people up that are getting off at King/Main and move them East and West across the city vs having people just standing around at the curb in the rain. A lot of the future transit planning uses the LRT as a backbone to tie everything together.

The A-line actually got some federal/provincial funding to start morphing into a BRT-lite with queue jumps and some mild transit signal priority. I've mentioned this a few pages ago, but I have no idea what the status of this stuff is. I think what the city has planned to rethink the L line (now called the 60/60A) actually has a lot more potential than the A line for infill development. An express bus from the center of the mountain (where a ton of building is forecasted) that hits Mohawk College, James/King, and West Harbour would be a game changer for regional transit. I'd love for the city to start thinking about bus lanes today, like RapidTO, vs trying to force them in later, leading to a lot of pushback and simultaneous construction nightmares. Getting a bus lane on Upper James or Mohawk is going to be a disaster if there's also simultaneous high rise construction... we should be proactive instead of desperately trying to catch up like the King St corridor. Look at all the massive condos going in that will be flooding the roads with cars downtown because we've wasted two decades, instead of building an attractive transit alternative that a professional would WANT to use (LRT, light metro, all-door boarding modern BRT), versus options that a broke person being FORCED to use (the B-line Bus).

One thing I'll note about the comments here arguing, essentially, "Metro or bust", it's like you folks are unaware of the many urban tram networks throughout Europe. It's not like Hamilton's LRT plans are some zany half-baked experiment and Alberta's LRT is the ONLY model for running a quick tram through a city. Many German Stadtbahn's built decades ago run high floor trams through dense pedestrianized streets and signaled intersections, not on discrete right of ways like Alberta. While they work well, if they were built today, they would be low-floor LRT's because the technology has evolved and are much easier and cheaper to incorporate into the cityscape. Hell, Berlin has been moving to use low-floor Flexities, just like Ontario...

Case in point: Tampere, Finland went through the same drama that Hamilton has been doing. They’re around the same scale as us. Humming and hawing over BRT vs Metro vs LRT for years. They came to the exact same conclusions Hamilton did: we’re never going to be big enough to justify a light metro, BRT has a poor return on investment, and trams are a mature reliable technology. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampere_light_rail their urban sections look very similar to Hamilton’s plans:
 
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The A-line as LRT is tough mainly due to having to deal with the escarpment. Given HSR's plan to use West harbour as a hub, I think the best move would be to convert James Mountain road to transit/emergency vehicles only, have dedicated bus lanes on James between Markland and York, and again be transit only between York and Barton.

It wouldn't be a popular policy move, but it would make a dramatic difference in the effectiveness of transit through the core and in the urban feel.
 
I actually disagree, Hamilton has made marked strides in road design in recent years and I’d sooner trust them than Metrolinx. You are exactly right that it’s too many cooks- it varies by which component, but for roads it’s not the locals. Other areas… yes.
I don't think we actually disagree on this. I agree that the City of Hamilton has done good work on road design standards in recent years. It seems to me that the issue is what happens when these standards get interpreted and implemented by the folks at Metrolinx, who are also trying to balance a bunch of other conflicting priorities with no clear prioritization. Too many cooks, no leadership, resulting in a dog's breakfast that will manage to annoy drivers and transit riders and cyclists! I think a lot of the design problems are fixable in the development phase. But will they actually get fixed?
 
The A-line as LRT is tough mainly due to having to deal with the escarpment. Given HSR's plan to use West harbour as a hub, I think the best move would be to convert James Mountain road to transit/emergency vehicles only, have dedicated bus lanes on James between Markland and York, and again be transit only between York and Barton.

It wouldn't be a popular policy move, but it would make a dramatic difference in the effectiveness of transit through the core and in the urban feel.
Yep, though it’s bigger than the A-Line. Any infrastructure improvement for Hamilton will require new or modified escarpment crossings, which is a major cost which further scars the escarpment. Now you can do larger, simpler projects elsewhere- But we’ll still need crossings, so let’s face it head-on.

The A-Line/James should be BRT/bus lanes/your idea in the near term, and heavier-rail in the long term. LRT is the most work for least reward; it’s is a tight yet major street for all users, so space should serve existing needs (bus lanes) and later be bypassed.

You can do whatever you want on Upper James, incl. elevated rail, so it shouldn’t be dictating modes for the key section (James). Ridership can come with time, but you can only (practically) touch the escarpment once.

Now, if we can somehow get the Concession St routes to a mountain A-Line RT station (TTC style), then we’re especially golden.
 
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