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Eug
Senior Member
Yes it was but people were afraid things would get seriously delayed because of his meddling. Instead, there may be no delay AND he gets his wish of full "subway" (or grade separated) to Kennedy, and even STC, as one line.
I was OK with the Eglinton LRT because it was a reasonable compromise. However for those of us in Scarborough this is even better. Yes, I'm biased.
So, how much faster will this line run as compared to the at-grade LRT?
Also, what would be the cost in 2011 $ to build the line out from Jane to the airport, grade separated vs non-grade separated?
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
The National Post is reporting that there will likely need to be an EA done for the new tunnel, so expect this line to open later than expected.
The Eglinton East surface section was set to operate at speeds of 22 - 25 km/h. It'll run between 5 and 8 km/h faster now, probably, though some of that will just be because there will be fewer stops than originally planned.
The Eglinton East surface section was set to operate at speeds of 22 - 25 km/h. It'll run between 5 and 8 km/h faster now, probably, though some of that will just be because there will be fewer stops than originally planned.
My guess is they will build it in 2 phases. Have the initial tunnel section and the SRT proceed as planned, and then dig Phase 2 once all the EAs and such are completed, because by then the TBMs will be finished the 1st part of Eglinton, and can hopefully near seamlessly move onto the East part.
This may mean however that the Eglinton and Scarborough portions of the line will operate independently for a couple years, without the eastern connecting piece. I'm willing to wait a couple extra years to get a line that is completely grade-separated and can run longer trains and ATC along its entire length.
Eug
Senior Member
Yeah if things go smoothly a two stage build may work with minimal delay. That's a pretty big if of course.
In the meantime I wonder how this will alter their approach to residential development along Eglinton, as most of it seems to be retail/commercial esp. east of Leslie. I note that along Bloor-Danforth at Warden it's gotten some pretty nice condos, specifically because of the subway station.
Then again one wonders what the LRT at grade would have done to residential development along the same stretch.
In the meantime I wonder how this will alter their approach to residential development along Eglinton, as most of it seems to be retail/commercial esp. east of Leslie. I note that along Bloor-Danforth at Warden it's gotten some pretty nice condos, specifically because of the subway station.
Then again one wonders what the LRT at grade would have done to residential development along the same stretch.
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Dan416
Senior Member
LRT at grade would lead to development. A subway leads to more development. According to Metrolinx BCAs anyway.
It's likely Eglinton will run at speeds equal to current TTC subway lines with similar stop spacing, e.g. Bloor-Danforth.
It's likely Eglinton will run at speeds equal to current TTC subway lines with similar stop spacing, e.g. Bloor-Danforth.
accura407
Car is King
A bizarre idea that Rob Ford may do is...reap the benefits of a "free" subway on Eglinton and pass it on to Sheppard...
Since Eglinton is so heavily underdeveloped and has plenty of land from Don Mills up to Birchmount (and to a lesser extent, Kennedy), the city could charge levies on all new development along this corridor then transfer it to Sheppard to build that subway (+ the levies along sheppard)
It could be pushed as a "Scarborough Shift" as in...Money is just moving North from Eglinton to Sheppard...
So as a result, development gets built on a mass scale from Don Mills to Kennedy along BOTH Eglinton and Sheppard...
Now...i'm not advocating this...but you have to admit it would be cool to see 2 parallel avenues having the same intensity of dense development occuring at the same time between the same cross streets!
It would change the face of Scarborough forever!
Since Eglinton is so heavily underdeveloped and has plenty of land from Don Mills up to Birchmount (and to a lesser extent, Kennedy), the city could charge levies on all new development along this corridor then transfer it to Sheppard to build that subway (+ the levies along sheppard)
It could be pushed as a "Scarborough Shift" as in...Money is just moving North from Eglinton to Sheppard...
So as a result, development gets built on a mass scale from Don Mills to Kennedy along BOTH Eglinton and Sheppard...
Now...i'm not advocating this...but you have to admit it would be cool to see 2 parallel avenues having the same intensity of dense development occuring at the same time between the same cross streets!
It would change the face of Scarborough forever!
Rainforest
Senior Member
Another limitation to consider: they will not shut down the existing SRT before the PanAm games in 2015, hence the upgraded SRT won't be running before 2017.
Eug
Senior Member
Well that's what I'm hoping for: Subway speed and subway type development. That strip certainly needs it.
I wonder what this will do to volumes on the Yonge line in the future though, because volumes will increase at Eglinton.
Also, while Finch's loss doesn't bother me as they'll be well served my BRT, I do wonder about Malvern in the future. I get the impression Ford's group won't even want to discuss Malvern. That's far off in the future though. OTOH, Maybe Jane and Don Mills should get priority over Malvern anyway.
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Definitely an interesting idea. It's almost like the concept of rolling over Securities from one phase of a project to another (for those who don't know, whenever a development is proposed, the City requires that a certain percentage of the project (sometimes even 100%) is paid to the City as a security deposit, in case the project falls flat on its face. "Rolling over" securities is when you use the Securities from Phase 1 of a project to then become the Securities for Phase 2 of the project). Take the money 'gained' from Eglinton and then use it as part of the 'down payment' on Sheppard.
Of course in order to do that there would need to be a major OPA, and a retooling of a good portion of the Zoning By-Law. That process would take almost as long as the construction itself
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Good point. Then maybe they would just plan on doing the central section for now, and then opening the East and Scarborough sections together.
lafard
Active Member
The problem with this is exactly the same as with the Sheppard-only proposal. There isn't enough condo demand to pay for the line, no matter how you distribute the development within the city.
Eglinton would benefit from being more central - you would have more demand and would be able to sell the units for more money (= higher taxes coming in) but the reality is that 5-10,000 condo units a year is the limit the market can bear, yielding a million dollars every couple years in development fees. Look at North York Centre - a 2km stretch that is still not substantially built out despite being decades old. Now imagine 25x as much avenue to finance. That's basicaly allocating 2/3 of Toronto's annual population growth to these two corridors.
Yes, this is a development the size of Cityplace every single year - but spread over 50km x 100m plot of land, that's less than 1% a year of the land supply being developed annually- and that's assuming that development elsewhere in the 416 is shifted onto this corridor substantially, and that there is no real estate correction dramatically shrinking the size of the condo market or that the current build rate is sustainable (which is of course, not clear at this time)
The private financing scheme is not workable. I'm glad that Eglinton was the winner here.
Eug
Senior Member
Agreed on both counts.
I was very concerned that the Sheppard subway would get funding and then Eglinton would be left severely crippled, with perhaps only the central tunnelled portion and nothing else. This new announcement favouring Eglinton is a major shift for Ford and friends.
Voltz
Senior Member
But now Finch, Sheppard and Malvern are the losers, all because of Fords fear of surface rail tranist.
Eug
Senior Member
Finch will be fine with BRT.
However, Malvern and Sheppard are dead.
Out of all of the above the one that concerns me the most is Malvern, not Sheppard or Finch.