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JSF-1 said:
This might be controversial on this forum but I was thinking in all of this discussion about the end to end travel time of the EC the question needs to be asked, how many people are actually going to be commuting from end to end on this route? The majority of people riding the EC are going to be making a much shorter journey. For example someone getting on in Scarborough is probably only going as far as Eglinton, similarly someone getting on at Mount Dennis is probably only going to either Cedarvale or Eglinton. Think of it like this, of the 403,000 people who ride Line 2 everyday how many of them are actually riding the whole line from Kennedy to Kipling? I know from personal experience that that trip takes about an hour assuming no delays, most riders are only going as far as Yonge or St.George. Or of the 625,000 riders on Line 1 how many of them are actually riding from Finch to VMC (in fact why on earth would you even do that). I admit I used to hammer on the Line 1 extension to Richmond Hill since it makes Line 1 even longer but it was often said to me that it didn't matter because the majority of riders aren't riding the entire line, so does that same logic not apply here as well? Does that mean we should ignore slow operations? no of course not but getting caught up on how long it takes for an train to get from Kennedy to Mount Dennis ignores the fact that the overwhelming majority of riders are not going to be riding the route from end to end.

The issue with Line 6 is that it only has 1 transfer and its at the very eastern end of the line so the slowness compounds the further west you go. With the EC however it has 3 transfers with a fourth under construction which will no doubt cut travel times even further for east enders. Something to remember is that travel paterns within the GTA are still centered on downtown and that is not changing in any of our life-times so the EC is more of a high-capacity feeder line feeding riders onto Line 1 and eventually the OL to get them downtown. This is also arguably what Line 2 is as well since its primary purpose was to replace an overcrowded streetcar that was taking commuters from Scarborough, East York, York and Etobicoke to Yonge Street; fast travel between Scarborough and Etobicoke was a secondary concern. Our biggest mistake was only building 1 subway into downtown Toronto and then feeding a city's worth of people onto it everyday; the OL however should fix this. Line 4 was the only route designed with the express purpose of not being a downtown feeder service but a trunk connection between STC and NYC, although in its current state it is arguably just a feeder service. By comparison there is no major economic hub on either end of the EC, Kennedy is a largely residential area, as is Mount Dennis and the York Centre plan died with the Eglinton subway. Finally I think eventually distances are great enough that you would be better off taking the GO Train (if it goes where you need it to) because it will always be faster then the subway and a fully built out RER would make it even better.

Basically what I am saying is that in a real world setting the travel time from Kennedy to Mount Dennis is a meaningless statistic because only a minority of riders will actually be making the full trip every day. The real number we should focus on is the journey time to the nearest transfer point with Line 1 because that will be where the majority of riders are going to and coming from. The OL is currently a non-factor in all of this but it is worth keeping in mind the travel time to Don Valley Station as well since it will be important in the future.
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Nah, I disagree with this type of thinking. With all do respect, but this sounds like a typical "Toronto" take on transit. Doubt this sort of thinking would fly in cities like London, Tokyo, Paris, etc.

Are you suggesting that speed isn't a big factor for the line because most riders will not ride the entire length?

So because most people don't ride the entire length of Line 2 we can afford to slow it down as well?

For me personally, the line should be as quick as possible, regardless of whether someone rides the line for only 2 stops or 10.
 
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Richard White said:
At the risk of beating on a dead horse, the cat is out of the bag. Telling people it will be delayed again would be suicide unless there was a legitimate issue like a station collapse or Mount Dennis burning down.
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One possibility is, it will definitely open Feb 8, but they want to keep it low key this time. Perhaps there will be no opening ceremony.
 
Richard White said:
Telling people it will be delayed again would be suicide unless there was a legitimate issue like a station collapse or Mount Dennis burning down.
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Would it?

There may be a small group of people who will be absolutely apoplectic with rage, but as a famous rock band once said, despite all their rage they are still just rats in a cage. As someone who has had to deal with using GO buses for many years, and the complacency of most of their ridership, unless there is a large, coordinated advocacy group that escalates a complaint, no amount of personal rage is going to achieve anything, and most people are quite content to sit on their laurels and avoid rocking the boat.
 
Bojaxs said:
Nah, I disagree with this type of thinking. With all do respect, but this sounds like a typical "Toronto" take on transit. Doubt this sort of thinking would fly in cities like London, Tokyo, Paris, etc.

Are you suggesting that speed isn't a big factor for the line because most riders will not ride the entire length?

So because most people don't ride the entire length of Line 2 we can afford to slow it down?

For me personally, the line should be as quick as possible, regardless of whether someone rides the line for only 2 stop or 10.
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I agree. The statement that almost nobody will be riding the train end to end, is kind of ignoring that one of the reasons for building it, was to connect Humber College Polytechnic to the subway. I expect it's an end to end trip for many students.
Though it's before my time, I presume the reason that Toronto's second subway was parallel to and two blocks apart from their first subway, was that serving U of T students was a high priority at the time.
 
A 6264 said:
One possibility is, it will definitely open Feb 8, but they want to keep it low key this time. Perhaps there will be no opening ceremony.
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Considering the history of the line and all the controversies on the way to this point, I'd say it's not far fetched to come to that conclusion.
 
A 6264 said:
I agree. The statement that almost nobody will be riding the train end to end, is kind of ignoring that one of the reasons for building it, was to connect Humber College Polytechnic to the subway. I expect it's an end to end trip for many students.
Though it's before my time, I presume the reason that Toronto's second subway was parallel to and two blocks apart from their first subway, was that serving U of T students was a high priority at the time.
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I would normally say that there is nuance to this - stop spacing will impact how fast you can go anyway, which will be somewhat reliant on what the urban form looks like.

However, the distance between two of Line 5's four interchanges, on its slowest (at grade) segment, is 11 km out of its total 19 km length. So there is definitely the "most" need to bring people between interchanges quickly in its slowest eastern section (on the basis of travel time competitiveness with auto, not on the basis of expected ridership demand).
 
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Richard White said:
At the risk of beating on a dead horse, the cat is out of the bag. Telling people it will be delayed again would be suicide unless there was a legitimate issue like a station collapse or Mount Dennis burning down.
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You'd think so, yet delays keep happening with seemingly no consequence
 
T3G said:
Would it?

There may be a small group of people who will be absolutely apoplectic with rage, but as a famous rock band once said, despite all their rage they are still just rats in a cage. As someone who has had to deal with using GO buses for many years, and the complacency of most of their ridership, unless there is a large, coordinated advocacy group that escalates a complaint, no amount of personal rage is going to achieve anything, and most people are quite content to sit on their laurels and avoid rocking the boat.
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I agree, Ford more or less confirmed 2025 multiple times last year, and he's doing just fine in 2026.
 
Richard White said:
At the risk of beating on a dead horse, the cat is out of the bag. Telling people it will be delayed again would be suicide unless there was a legitimate issue like a station collapse or Mount Dennis burning down.
Click to expand...
T3G said:
Would it?

There may be a small group of people who will be absolutely apoplectic with rage, but as a famous rock band once said, despite all their rage they are still just rats in a cage. As someone who has had to deal with using GO buses for many years, and the complacency of most of their ridership, unless there is a large, coordinated advocacy group that escalates a complaint, no amount of personal rage is going to achieve anything, and most people are quite content to sit on their laurels and avoid rocking the boat.
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We will see how many signatures Josh Matlow gets on his petition. That will show how many people care enough so they will take a few minutes to find the web site and put down their name.
 
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