[Natika33]

Sometime ago Adil Shamji, Liberal MPP, organized a petition asking for a public enquiry re Eglinton LRT. It was not widely advertised and then it quietly disappeared. Not sure why. Perhaps the Liberal leadership decided to let sleeping dogs lie.

Yes, in July he included a paper form in his newsletter that one was supposed to either fold over & mail or hand in at his office. Not sure many felt comfortable putting their private info onto a folded piece of paper in the mail or how many people were on his mailing list. Seems it would have had wider reach if it was electronic & shareable.

 

[ShonTron]

Aren't vertical white bars used for turns in Toronto instead of going straight? These white bar transit signals have been discussed on this forum quite a few times.
The issue is that our Highway Traffic Act doesn't support the kind of transit signal that Europe/USA/Quebec uses. While the vertical white bar is recognized by the HTA, it's mounted at the top of a regular R-Y-G light instead of being its own signal. Any other white transit indications are not recognized. See R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (1).

It is possible to get an exception, as Waterloo Region did for its LRT crossings. The HTA can change, as it did when bicycle signals finally were permitted unique lenses.

Frankly, I’d love to completely go through the HTA and OTMs and rewrite whole sections on signage and signalization. White bars on general traffic signals could continue to be used for transit priority, but would then or permitted for dedicated signals on transit ROWs.

I’d mandate, rather than simply permit, flashing green arrows for advance and lagging turns, and require amber and red arrows for dedicated turn signals. This would help reduce sign clutter, especially in areas where bilingual signage is mandated.

I would also like to see lower profile traffic signal assemblies in urban areas with lower speed limits. We shouldn’t need giant yellow signals on long mast arms in places like Downtown Toronto. Québec does it better.

 

[nfitz]

While the vertical white bar is recognized by the HTA, it's mounted at the top of a regular R-Y-G light instead of being its own signal. Any other white transit indications are not recognized. See R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (1).

So mount one above the traffic light as well, if they are so reluctant to ask for a bog standard exception.

 

[Dan416]

The clutter is really unfortunate. They should have really figured this out before building all these LRTs. I hate that we don't bother learning best practices from other jurisdictions first.

I had a couple coworkers venting about the excess number of stops on the streetcar routes and how you can basically walk and keep up with the King streetcar (is that still true with the changes they did on King?)

 

[trafficexplorerON]

There are honestly so many things about the HTA and OTM that I believe are seriously holding us back, but I believe there are better threads than this one to discuss this. Maybe the one on traffic signals or perhaps a new thread?

A few in particular that are relevant to this LRT are:
1. legalize International-style transit signals. This would be easier said than done because according to a bunch of other commenters I have heard here, Toronto currently uses vertical white bars for turns only. That is why the transit signals at Queens Quay and Dan Leckie use green thru arrows instead. So to use vertical white bars for thru movements in Toronto, every existing white bar would have to first be changed to one or two diagonal white bars.
2. Recognize the combined "No left or U-turn" sign. It's frankly ridiculous that we aren't allowed to combine no left turn and no U-turn signs in Ontario.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

… according to a bunch of other commenters I have heard here, Toronto currently uses vertical white bars for turns only. That is why the transit signals at Queens Quay and Dan Leckie use green thru arrows instead. So to use vertical white bars for thru movements in Toronto, every existing white bar would have to first be changed to one or two diagonal white bars.

Oddly enough, Spadina thru King has had a white bar on its transit signal as long as Google Maps street view goes back (2007). I’ve only noticed it occasionally being used for thru movements in the past year.

 

[Steve X]

There are honestly so many things about the HTA and OTM that I believe are seriously holding us back, but I believe there are better threads than this one to discuss this. Maybe the one on traffic signals or perhaps a new thread?

A few in particular that are relevant to this LRT are:
1. legalize International-style transit signals. This would be easier said than done because according to a bunch of other commenters I have heard here, Toronto currently uses vertical white bars for turns only. That is why the transit signals at Queens Quay and Dan Leckie use green thru arrows instead. So to use vertical white bars for thru movements in Toronto, every existing white bar would have to first be changed to one or two diagonal white bars.
2. Recognize the combined "No left or U-turn" sign. It's frankly ridiculous that we aren't allowed to combine no left turn and no U-turn signs in Ontario.

I think you need to reread what the white bar transit signal meant

Traffic lights | The Official Ministry of Transportation (MTO) Bus Handbook

The online version of the Ontario bus handbook. Use this book to study for your B and E licence, test your knowledge and prepare for your B and E road tests.

www.ontario.ca

The white bar is a protected phase in which the transit vehicle has complete right of way to perform whatever direction it wants to go. All other directions sees a red signal and should yield to the transit vehicle.

You see a green arrow on the QQ signals as the streetcar (or bus using the ROW) doesn't not have complete right of way to perform turns while cars are given green to proceed forward. Back in the days before the rebuild, on QQ, there is a "white bar" phase where streetcars would proceed first while everyone else gets a red. Then streetcars get a red while cars are free to make left turns or go straight.

Oddly enough, Spadina thru King has had a white bar on its transit signal as long as Google Maps street view goes back (2007). I’ve only noticed it occasionally being used for thru movements in the past year.

Although the white bar should only activate if the streetcar issued a turn signal (that's how it is setup), the streetcar can do whatever it wants when they get the signal.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

As mentioned elsewhere, the Province of Québec uses transit specific signals with their buses,

 

[evandyk]

I had a couple coworkers venting about the excess number of stops on the streetcar routes and how you can basically walk and keep up with the King streetcar (is that still true with the changes they did on King?)

Generally speaking, you can't quite keep up with the King streetcar if you're on foot. It is still slightly faster than walking, though a whole lot slower than biking. Once you get out of the downtown core, it's quite a bit faster than walking, though usually still slower than biking.

A big part of the problem is that it has to stop at almost every intersection because in many cases the driver has to stop the car before going through the intersection, even though the light is green (and then the light changes while it's stopped).

 

[trafficexplorerON]

I think you need to reread what the white bar transit signal meant

Traffic lights | The Official Ministry of Transportation (MTO) Bus Handbook

The online version of the Ontario bus handbook. Use this book to study for your B and E licence, test your knowledge and prepare for your B and E road tests.

www.ontario.ca

The white bar is a protected phase in which the transit vehicle has complete right of way to perform whatever direction it wants to go. All other directions sees a red signal and should yield to the transit vehicle.

You see a green arrow on the QQ signals as the streetcar (or bus using the ROW) doesn't not have complete right of way to perform turns while cars are given green to proceed forward. Back in the days before the rebuild, on QQ, there is a "white bar" phase where streetcars would proceed first while everyone else gets a red. Then streetcars get a red while cars are free to make left turns or go straight.


Although the white bar should only activate if the streetcar issued a turn signal (that's how it is setup), the streetcar can do whatever it wants when they get the signal.

Did you notice how I said "In Toronto", not "In Ontario"?
And either way, these wouldn't just work for any thru movement along this LRT.

What are rules about quoting other people's posts on this forum? There one I would like to show as an example.

 

[jmi22]

The clutter is really unfortunate. They should have really figured this out before building all these LRTs. I hate that we don't bother learning best practices from other jurisdictions first.

I had a couple coworkers venting about the excess number of stops on the streetcar routes and how you can basically walk and keep up with the King streetcar (is that still true with the changes they did on King?)

King Street: Toronto's Transit Inferiority Corridor | UrbanToronto

Long planned upgrades to Toronto's busiest streetcar line have gone off the rails once more, with anticipated improvements to the 504 King's Transit Priority Corridor notably absent from the recently rebuilt intersection of King and Church streets, and indicative of a failure to truly prioritize...

urbantoronto.ca

Yep, still one of the slowest, if the the slowest streetcars on the entire planet. Not to worry though, Chow shoveled some millions into hiring a hundred traffic agents that never seem to show up to work.

 

[urbanclient]

King Street: Toronto's Transit Inferiority Corridor | UrbanToronto

Long planned upgrades to Toronto's busiest streetcar line have gone off the rails once more, with anticipated improvements to the 504 King's Transit Priority Corridor notably absent from the recently rebuilt intersection of King and Church streets, and indicative of a failure to truly prioritize...

urbantoronto.ca

Yep, still one of the slowest, if the the slowest streetcars on the entire planet. Not to worry though, Chow shoveled some millions into hiring a hundred traffic agents that never seem to show up to work.

Hot take, the Mayor deserves to lose re-election solely because she has refused to use her strong mayor powers to enact active transit signal priority for streetcars (and Line 5 and 6), much less successfully advocated this issue to the city council or TTC chair. She has been mayor since July 2023.

Her ineffectual comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1k6ant7/olivia_chows_views_on_transit_signal_priority_on

 

[Rainforest]

Ineffectual ??

---
"I think at the end of the day, it's the number of people served. The higher number of people served — whether it's LRT or buses — they would take priority."

"If a bus is carrying 30 people, I think that bus should have priority over a car or two cars that are carrying two people. Would I give priority to 30 people versus two people? Yes, I would," says Mayor Olivia Chow.
---

I think that's pretty clear.

 

[hw621]

Ineffectual ??

---
"I think at the end of the day, it's the number of people served. The higher number of people served — whether it's LRT or buses — they would take priority."

"If a bus is carrying 30 people, I think that bus should have priority over a car or two cars that are carrying two people. Would I give priority to 30 people versus two people? Yes, I would," says Mayor Olivia Chow.
---

I think that's pretty clear.

Pretty clear that she is enacting signal priority?

 

[crs1026]

Considering that Holyday's question was pretty clearly worded as a troll, Chow chose her words carefully. I would say she said yes, but not in a way that anyone can run to Ford and cry about a "war on cars".

- Paul