[DSCToronto]

I was walking along this park from St Lawrence Market to Distillery since it was nicer out. The whole part in the plan about this being a commune corridor between Distillery and St Lawrence really stuck with me. These two culture centers should linked up in some form. Especially with Front Street getting more of the new condos and that breaking the stylistic cohesion, this park is that link.

I do love the older apartments in the area (minus T&S). The two problems I see are 1) How to make the park work both as a corridor for the Distillery and St Lawrence while also serve the residents, and 2) The existing apartments do meet the street poorly, can something be done about it?

With that said, my first question is if the overall vision will be viable to be more like the public green spaces in Detroit downtown, where you get the feeling that it is an extension of the visitor experience? Or is the goal really is to build this for the locals?

Second question, maybe some of the more informed members can let me know, generally hard viable is it for older apartments to covert some of the ground level to retail space to take advantage of the unique location? I have seen a few successful apartments update but I never see anyone tries to convert ground level to retails.

Yes, the Esplanade IS (as designed) the 'spine' of the St Lawrence Neighbourhood and links into the newer Distillery District. It serves both locals and visitors.

Converting ground level space to retail is not a simple task. Some of the buildings are condominiums so changing the space from residential to commercial is VERY complex and often the ground level is things like gyms or laundry areas, some buildings are TCHC and have services on ground level and others are offices and seem to work well as such. There is some retail along The Esplanade and I am not sure there is a market for more. T&S has some (unrented) retail and some (partly occupied) residential at street level. As one might have expected, the retail seems not to have been designed to fit into neighbourhood needs and it almost all (or all?) remains unleased.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is the absence of a retail streetfront an issue here? The way the existing buildings meet the street - if you take away this lens - isn't that big of a problem by and large.

AoD

 

[Start Fox]

In my view, pedestrianizing the section of The Esplanade along David Crombie Park by bricking it over would do wonders. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed as part of the revitalization (or maybe I'm just not in-the-know).

Opens up all of the existing retail in those buildings directly onto the park, making the park a better destination and revitalizing those retail units by allow them to spill out with patios. And doesn't require adding retail to the existing residential buildings on the other side of the park (which, while I'd be happy for that to happen, doesn't seem feasible).

That section of the street is not heavily travelled by vehicles anyways, and traffic flow would be largely unchanged as you can make the street in front of the apartments (Scadding Ave) the through-way.

 

[Tyrang]

In my view, pedestrianizing the section of The Esplanade along David Crombie Park by bricking it over would do wonders. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed as part of the revitalization (or maybe I'm just not in-the-know).

Opens up all of the existing retail in those buildings directly onto the park, making the park a better destination and revitalizing those retail units by allow them to spill out with patios. And doesn't require adding retail to the existing residential buildings on the other side of the park (which, while I'd be happy for that to happen, doesn't seem feasible).

That section of the street is not heavily travelled by vehicles anyways, and traffic flow would be largely unchanged as you can make the street in front of the apartments (Scadding Ave) the through-way.

I really want the area to feel something like this:

Since we cannot drink in the park, having some bar patios close to the park would make it pretty lively in summer.

Anyways, one can dream.

 

[bearcat]

I really want the area to feel something like this:

View attachment 633528

Since we cannot drink in the park, having some bar patios close to the park would make it pretty lively in summer.

Anyways, one can dream.

Or the city could designate it as one of the parks where you can drink? Not sure what the process is there.

 

[Dinamo5]

These discussions need to continue and people need to go to these meetings for this area, this is a massive piece for Toronto, this thoroughfare is so important, it can not be anything less then special/spectacular. They should take examples of other walking cities where things have worked. I agree not nearly enough retail, but this is where the city could possibly give concessions to building owners to renovate the lower portions for street level. Make them inviting. Can't screw this one up.

 

[Tyrang]

These discussions need to continue and people need to go to these meetings for this area, this is a massive piece for Toronto, this thoroughfare is so important, it can not be anything less then special/spectacular. They should take examples of other walking cities where things have worked. I agree not nearly enough retail, but this is where the city could possibly give concessions to building owners to renovate the lower portions for street level. Make them inviting. Can't screw this one up.

I'd agree. Honestly I am not really satisfied by the current plan. It is a great part for locals, but it doesn't feel like a "spine" between two of the most iconic landmarks in Toronto. The Esplanade has a great west part, and at least some continuity to that would be great.

 

[DSCToronto]

I'd agree. Honestly I am not really satisfied by the current plan. It is a great part for locals, but it doesn't feel like a "spine" between two of the most iconic landmarks in Toronto. The Esplanade has a great west part, and at least some continuity to that would be great.

You state that the west part of The Esplanade (I assume the section from Yonge to Lower Jarvis) is great. It is, but it is completely different from the part to the east (Lower Jarvis to Berkeley. The western part has buildings right up to the sidewalk, the eastern part has a large linear park on one side of it. Not sure how you would create "continuity" or why you would want to. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds"!

 

[Tyrang]

You state that the west part of The Esplanade (I assume the section from Yonge to Lower Jarvis) is great. It is, but it is completely different from the part to the east (Lower Jarvis to Berkeley. The western part has buildings right up to the sidewalk, the eastern part has a large linear park on one side of it. Not sure how you would create "continuity" or why you would want to. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds"!

Hmmm... I think Ralph Waldo Emerson's quote doesn't quite apply the same way here with the continuity. He wants people to challenge and have new ideas, - to think "big", and technically I am critiquing the plan and bring in my ideas? In fact, if I don't raise my idea here, I think the quote will apply more as a criticism to me.

Anyways, on the why I would want to - I actually already stated it in my prior comment. I believe The Esplanade, as I think you have previously mentioned is meant to be the spine. It would makes sense to continue the walking experience between Old Town and Distillery. So to me, with respect, I would say "why wouldn't you want to?"

As for how, I am no landscape architect, and I also don't want a lot of changes. I actually like the park to begin with, and I also love the older apartments style here quite a bit more than I like T&S. I think a retail revival around either north or south side, along with some more of the lighting and street material style as Dstillery/Old Town will go a long way.

Anyways, thanks for listening

 

[DSCToronto]

Hmmm... I think Ralph Waldo Emerson's quote doesn't quite apply the same way here with the continuity. He wants people to challenge and have new ideas, - to think "big", and technically I am critiquing the plan and bring in my ideas? In fact, if I don't raise my idea here, I think the quote will apply more as a criticism to me.

Anyways, on the why I would want to - I actually already stated it in my prior comment. I believe The Esplanade, as I think you have previously mentioned is meant to be the spine. It would makes sense to continue the walking experience between Old Town and Distillery. So to me, with respect, I would say "why wouldn't you want to?"

As for how, I am no landscape architect, and I also don't want a lot of changes. I actually like the park to begin with, and I also love the older apartments style here quite a bit more than I like T&S. I think a retail revival around either north or south side, along with some more of the lighting and street material style as Dstillery/Old Town will go a long way.

Anyways, thanks for listening

Clearly walking experiences (or expectations?) differ. I like both halves of The Esplanade, the western part is (generally) good for retail/restaurant experiences while the eastern section provides a way to walk in (or adjacent to) a park and there is retail on north side (even if it's not terribly interesting). The redesign will bring the park more into the street (or the sidewalk more into the park) on the south side. I would certainly like the Lower Jarvis to Church blocks to be a bit more interesting, the City offices on the south side are 'boring' and the addition of a Dollarama in the former TV studio space will not add much - I was hoping for another patio. The new No Frills just west of Church is a very useful place but again, a patio there would have been great too - maybe the planned new development of hotel etc will provide better street links???.

 

[Tyrang]

Clearly walking experiences (or expectations?) differ. I like both halves of The Esplanade, the western part is (generally) good for retail/restaurant experiences while the eastern section provides a way to walk in (or adjacent to) a park and there is retail on north side (even if it's not terribly interesting). The redesign will bring the park more into the street (or the sidewalk more into the park) on the south side. I would certainly like the Lower Jarvis to Church blocks to be a bit more interesting, the City offices on the south side are 'boring' and the addition of a Dollarama in the former TV studio space will not add much - I was hoping for another patio. The new No Frills just west of Church is a very useful place but again, a patio there would have been great too - maybe the planned new development of hotel etc will provide better street links???.

I certainly agree with you on the fairly uninteresting Front Street setup. This may improve or it may not, though I do want it to become better. Overall, I think walking on the Esplanade should provide a better experience, since it is pedestrianized.

I guess I should see how the park redesign plays out. The main reason I was asking about the viability of updating the retail space in a condo, is that I think just one or two good patios along the park side will do so much for both the locals and visitors alike.

 

[DSCToronto]

I certainly agree with you on the fairly uninteresting Front Street setup. This may improve or it may not, though I do want it to become better. Overall, I think walking on the Esplanade should provide a better experience, since it is pedestrianized.

I guess I should see how the park redesign plays out. The main reason I was asking about the viability of updating the retail space in a condo, is that I think just one or two good patios along the park side will do so much for both the locals and visitors alike.

It is not likely that the retail space in condo buildings actually belongs to the Condo Corporation. Some are simply "Units" in the Corporation with individual owners (like residential unit owners), some are actually NOT part of the condo at all but were retained by the developer (or sold on by him as a stand-alone). If the retail owners thought they could get more income by changing a dental office to a bar/patio, I bet they would do it.