[Northern Light]

That's cool, but why can't those households live in those affordable places I've listed in my previous post?

Because vacant units in those areas aren't affordable?

The waiting list for TCHC affordable housings is years long.

The vacant, private sector rental units aren't affordable to a low income earner.

Here's a listing for Flemingdon Park:

For rent: 48 Grenoble Dr Toronto, 1 bdrm Viewit |2565

Toronto's rental appartment. 1 bedroom. Welcome to 48 Grenoble Drive – Convenient Living in Flemingdon Park Located in the heart of the vibrant Flemingdon Park neighbo... www.viewit.ca/2565

www.viewit.ca

1 bedroom, not a fancy area, no a/c, no dishwasher, no ensuite laundry..... $2,100 per month

Let's take a minimum wage earner, and presume they are getting full time work with 40 hours of pay.

That would them a monthly income (Based on 2 week pay periods) of $2,752 before taxes and deductions.

While they would likely get most of their initial income tax deduction back, that only happens once a year, regardless, they face deductions for EI and CPP.

Assume they keep 80% for our purposes here.

That's disposable income of $2,201 per month.

At the above rent, they would have $101 a month to survive on for food, a phone, clothes and a bus pass, and laundry.

That's why that housing isn't sufficiently affordable.

 

[northyorker1]

Because vacant units in those areas aren't affordable?

The waiting list for TCHC affordable housings is years long.

The vacant, private sector rental units aren't affordable to a low income earner.

Here's a listing for Flemingdon Park:

For rent: 48 Grenoble Dr Toronto, 1 bdrm Viewit |2565

Toronto's rental appartment. 1 bedroom. Welcome to 48 Grenoble Drive – Convenient Living in Flemingdon Park Located in the heart of the vibrant Flemingdon Park neighbo... www.viewit.ca/2565

www.viewit.ca

1 bedroom, not a fancy area, no a/c, no dishwasher, no ensuite laundry..... $2,100 per month

Lets take a minimum wage earner, and presume they are getting full time work with 40 hours of pay.

That would them a monthly income (Based on 2 week pay periods) of $2,752 before taxes and deductions.

While they would likely get most of their initial income tax deduction back, that only happens once a year, regardless, they face deductions for EI and CPP.

Assume they keep 80% for our purposes here.

That's disposable income of $2,201 per month.

At the above rent, they would have $101 a month to survive on for food, a phone, clothes and a bus pass, and laundry.

That's why that housing isn't sufficiently affordable.

If you really want to play that game, here's a 1 bedroom for $1300:

Viewit.ca Apartments for Rent

Canada apartments, Canada Apartment Guide with pictures making it easy to see your apartment rental in Canada online.

www.viewit.ca

here's another one for $1150, that nobody seems to want for 17 days now:

HouseSigma

housesigma.com

 

[Northern Light]

If you really want to play that game,

It's not a game.

You asked a question, and I provided an honest answer and backed it up.

You seem to live to spoil for a fight even with people who take the time to answer your questions thoughtfully.

It's not a good look.

here's a 1 bedroom for $1300:

Viewit.ca Apartments for Rent

Canada apartments, Canada Apartment Guide with pictures making it easy to see your apartment rental in Canada online.

www.viewit.ca

This seems reasonable...... though the pictures make me think the unit may not be legal as those don't look like egress windows to me.

There's also a one person limit....no couples in a one bedroom seems odd....

here's another one for $1150, that nobody seems to want for 17 days now:

HouseSigma

housesigma.com

Did you read the listing? That's for shared accommodation, for a single room, in fact, a single bed, one person only............shared kitchen/common space, etc. So that's a rooming house, not an apartment.


****

Using the same service (View It) I selected one bedroom, Max rent $1,400. for S2 (roughly 1/3 of Scarborough). Number of units that came up, 1
boosted it to $1,600, still only 4 listings.

That's not a game, it's honest math.

The supply is grossly insufficient to the demand.

 

[ShonTron]

At least some people are open about their desires for class-based apartheid.

 

[Collingwoodbuildinglover]

If you really want to play that game, here's a 1 bedroom for $1300:

Viewit.ca Apartments for Rent

Canada apartments, Canada Apartment Guide with pictures making it easy to see your apartment rental in Canada online.

www.viewit.ca

here's another one for $1150, that nobody seems to want for 17 days now:

HouseSigma

housesigma.com

what is the utility costs on each of these units both look like older homes $1300 doesn't help if your utility bills are $1000 on top also basement apartment to me screams i couldn't afford my mortgage so i through in a second unit to be able to eat

 

[Northern Light]

what is the utility costs on each of these units both look like older homes $1300 doesn't help if your utility bills are $1000 on top also basement apartment to me screams i couldn't afford my mortgage so i through in a second unit to be able to eat

The basement ad says Util. Included.

 

[northyorker1]

At least some people are open about their desires for class-based apartheid.

Easy there with the accusation. All I'm saying is people should live where they can afford, and stop complaining.

 

[Natika33]

That's cool, but why can't those households live in those affordable places I've listed in my previous post?

Pretty sure they are as much as they can. Wasn't there someone on here last year complaining that units in Flemingdon Park were starting to fill up with more tenants than should be in one unit even?

How about we think about this another way - could 25% of Toronto's population fit into only those areas you mention? Because that's how many make less than $39,000 per year. Even at the 50th percentile making $4800 per month, do we have enough stock of rooms anywhere in the city (not even asking for full apartments here) that one could rent for under the recommended 30% of income?

 

[Undead]

A bunch of weird takes here.

15 extra affordable units is a drop in the ocean relative to the scale of the affordability problem in the City. Let's not oversell this as some big win.

Next, people may be unable to live somewhere more affordable because of their family, or their job in the City forces them to attend the office.

And the apartheid thing is just brain rot lol.

 

[Northern Light]

Easy there with the accusation. All I'm saying is people should live where they can afford, and stop complaining.

Right, but what people are saying to you is that a full time minimum wage earner can't afford any market-rent 1 bedroom apartment in the City. (sure there's the odd grandma renting an ok basement for $1,000, but there's 5 of those in the whole city and 14,000 homeless people.)

Clearly a mismatch of demand and supply.

You could absolutely address the issue through wages and benefits......... but to afford even $1,400 per month ( $16,800 per year) using the 30% of income on housing guideline .....they would need to earn $56,000 per year or ~$23 per hour.

Minimum wage is $17.20 per hour. See the math problem?

Obviously, those on gov't benefits makes considerably less than minimum wage, OW is $733 per month if you have no dependents and ODSP a hair above $1,400.

We could increase both to ~$2,500 per month.....of course, that will cost in the range of 8B per year and require a 2 point hike in HST.

How you square the circle, I'm open on .....but certainly affordable housing factors in there somewhere in most people's math.

 

[Northern Light]

A bunch of weird takes here.

15 extra affordable units is a drop in the ocean relative to the scale of the affordability problem in the City. Let's not oversell this as some big win.

To be fair, the math is 15 extra units each time you get a building of this size. If the market returned to recent building norms.... big if, you're talking 100+ approvals per year, so that's 1,500 units.

Grossly over simplified, but important to keep in mind.

And the apartheid thing is just brain rot lol.

While the word is loaded, @ShonTron clearly identified that he meant by class (wealth/income) rather than race.

The definition of the word reflects separation or keeping apart of groups:

1940s: from Afrikaans, literally ‘separateness’, from Dutch apart ‘separate’ + -heid (equivalent of -hood ) - Oxford.

 

[Undead]

To be fair, the math is 15 extra units each time you get a building of this size. If the market returned to recent building norms.... big if, you're talking 100+ approvals per year, so that's 1,500 units.

Grossly over simplified, but important to keep in mind.

Sure, but if we use the stat you provided about food bank usage as a proxy for those who need affordable housing, we will need 100 years at that pace, and in a red hot market, to address the need. And that's without the population getting any larger and poorer.

 

[Northern Light]

Sure, but if we use the stat you provided about food bank usage as a proxy for those who need affordable housing, we will need 100 years at that pace, and in a red hot market, to address the need. And that's without the population getting any larger and poorer.

No question that additional responses are needed.

I'm a big advocate for raising minimum wage and social assistance so that existing housing, where available is affordable to more households.

I'm also of the view that we need, over time, to convert existing social housing to the Vienna model (where market rents in the same building subsidize more affordable units). The intent here is to both increase the supply of market rental units substantially forcing the rent down, but also essentially create 'co-ops' owned by the state, that are self-financing, freeing up money to build more of the same.

Then, as supply increases, we can reduce the number of shelter beds, which are both very expensive, and lousy accommodation, and shift the savings to yet more affordable housing.

There are lots of moving parts.

But right now, in the absence of those bigger moves, we need these piece meal, stop-gap solutions.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

...I think it's safe to say that those stop gap solutions are inadequate as well as infuriating at times in light of what really needs to be done though.

 

[erpe]

Does anyone know when the development of this complex will start?