This one is before Council next week. It is not a Settlement Offer, but rather requesting directions for the City's position here, at the OLT, due to new plans filed.

The new plans are a radical departure.... 14s mid-rise:

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@Paclo will sort the details.
 
The proposal is...better. But that's not saying much, because there's still so many things wrong with this.

The previously proposed density was far too high for the immediate area, and this one is still a bit too tall. I love how they're pushing for 14s here, but there's nothing immediate close to being that on Lake Shore, that in itself is comical. Trim this down 3-4 stories and then we're talking.

Also it's cute they are proposing retail in this. Generally i'm 99% supportive of it, but any retail would just die a quick death here. There's simply no foot traffic to support it at all here.

The architecture here is simply put, horrid and cold.
 
Amare said:
The proposal is...better. But that's not saying much, because there's still so many things wrong with this.

The previously proposed density was far too high for the immediate area, and this one is still a bit too tall. I love how they're pushing for 14s here, but there's nothing immediate close to being that on Lake Shore, that in itself is comical. Trim this down 3-4 stories and then we're talking.

Also it's cute they are proposing retail in this. Generally i'm 99% supportive of it, but any retail would just die a quick death here. There's simply no foot traffic to support it at all here.

The architecture here is simply put, horrid and cold.
Click to expand...
A further trim is needless, this has been litigated a million times on this website but not a single soul actually notices the difference between an 11 storey and a 14 storey building. And how is precedent supposed to be established if you can never exceed the current precedent? This is a fine height, especially sitting on the corner of two arterials, one of them (Islington) being in desperate need of some street-wall that does not remind one of 1970's Detroit.

15 (ish) stories will already be as of right on this stretch once the various avenue policies come to fruition, I really cannot comprehend why you feel years of back and forth over literally 12 meters is a valuable thing for city staff to spend time on.

But yea, retail will struggle and the arch is icy
 
Amare said:
The proposal is...better. But that's not saying much, because there's still so many things wrong with this.

The previously proposed density was far too high for the immediate area, and this one is still a bit too tall. I love how they're pushing for 14s here, but there's nothing immediate close to being that on Lake Shore, that in itself is comical. Trim this down 3-4 stories and then we're talking.

Also it's cute they are proposing retail in this. Generally i'm 99% supportive of it, but any retail would just die a quick death here. There's simply no foot traffic to support it at all here.

The architecture here is simply put, horrid and cold.
Click to expand...

On the height/massing:

The tower is sufficiently set back that I don't see its height as an issue. Sure it's a quirk right now, but it won't be in a few years. I'm more focused on the podium as that is the height people perceive, take 1-2s off the podium, but no loss for the developer, as I would infill that weird indent with additional massing, and create much more straight-forward, lower-cost floors.

On appearance:

It is cold. It is ugly. Just give me some straight-forward, yellow or red brick masonry on the podium....I'd ask for good quality terra cotta, but I'm not one for living in a fantasy world.

***

On Retail:

I'm sympathetic to the argument it will struggle out of the gate, but residential at-grade doesn't seem right either.

I'd be open to live/work that's convertible to retail at a later date.
 
jmi22 said:
A further trim is needless, this has been litigated a million times on this website but not a single soul actually notices the difference between an 11 storey and a 14 storey building. And how is precedent supposed to be established if you can never exceed the current precedent? This is a fine height, especially sitting on the corner of two arterials, one of them (Islington) being in desperate need of some street-wall that does not remind one of 1970's Detroit.

15 (ish) stories will already be as of right on this stretch once the various avenue policies come to fruition, I really cannot comprehend why you feel years of back and forth over literally 12 meters is a valuable thing for city staff to spend time on.

But yea, retail will struggle and the arch is icy
Click to expand...
Yeah, i'll have to disagree here. This would be the tallest on Birmingham St by a country mile. And there is already precedent, 5-6 stories a few blocks west.

If this was proposed just south on Lake Shore, there'd be no issue whatsoever. You (the developer i mean), has to know your market. The fact they came with 26s shows me they were already out to lunch. The proposed retail space further exemplifies that.

To be honest i skeptical on the entire proposal, I dont see this going ahead as envisioned. It's a very odd location for this kind of build.

Northern Light said:
On Retail:

I'm sympathetic to the argument it will struggle out of the gate, but residential at-grade doesn't seem right either.

I'd be open to live/work that's convertible to retail at a later date.
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If they configured the retail in a way that accommodated similar uses in the surrounding area (ie: fitness space, food co-op, etc.), then I could see that being successful and well used. There's no coffee shop or dining/restaurant style store that will do well on site at all. To be honest, I dont even think Live/work space would be ideal here either.
 
Amare said:
Yeah, i'll have to disagree here. This would be the tallest on Birmingham St by a country mile. And there is already precedent, 5-6 stories a few blocks west.
Click to expand...
There is literally a 13 storey building not even a quarter of a kilometer away.
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Have you been to the neighborhood this century? 13s tower been there since 2007.

Arguing over whether its appropriate for a 1m increase in the height 'precedent' is just ridiculous.
 
jmi22 said:
There is literally a 13 storey building not even a quarter of a kilometer away.
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Have you been to the neighborhood this century? 13s tower been there since 2007.

Arguing over whether its appropriate for a 1m increase in the height 'precedent' is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I'm well aware, I lived in South Etobicoke for many, many years.

So yes, I know the ins and outs of this area and neighborhood with my eyes closed.
 
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