[artyboy123]

An in-person community consultation meeting for this project is planned on April 1st, 2025:

City Planning & Development Review Consultations

Register for upcoming consultations using the Upcoming Events table below. For instructions on how to participate in public consultations using the online tool WebEx, please visit Participate in City Virtual Events. The City is continually working to broaden participation in city building. Are...

www.toronto.ca

15 Toronto St

22 185154 STE 13 OZ

Christy Chow

2025-04-01

In-person

6 p.m. – 7 p.m. Novotel Toronto Centre – Provence Room 45 The Esplanade Toronto, ON M5E 1W2

This shall be exciting!

 

[interchange42]

…and probably shaving a few inches off each floor.

Nope, there's a healthy 3m 25cm ceiling to ceiling difference, the same as before the office floors were converted to residential, so the entire difference in number of floors comes from the replacement of taller office floors with shorter residential ones.

84 new units and...0 new elevators.

So they'll need to spec particularly high speed elevator motors to serve the residents here sufficiently. Only three elevators for 394 suites means 1 for every 131.33 suites, which is high. Also, if one goes down, it's a bigger deal than if 1 of 4 went down, obvs. These are small floor-plates, only 511m², so I get why there are only 3 elevator shafts... but then they really will have to commit to some of the fastest residential elevators in the city, and making sure downtime is next to nil.

42

 

[ProjectEnd]

Nope, there's a healthy 3m 25cm ceiling to ceiling difference, the same as before the office floors were converted to residential, so the entire difference in number of floors comes from the replacement of taller office floors with shorter residential ones.


So they'll need to spec particularly high speed elevator motors to serve the residents here sufficiently. Only three elevators for 394 suites means 1 for every 131.33 suites, which is high. Also, if one goes down, it's a bigger deal than if 1 of 4 went down, obvs. These are small floor-plates, only 511m², so I get why there are only 3 elevator shafts... but then they really will have to commit to some of the fastest residential elevators in the city, and making sure downtime is next to nil.

42

We are talking about the same Madison here, no...?

 

[ML555]

This yet further case of removing office-space in the core makes me wonder if there is anyone in City Hall who is concerned about long-term implications for lack of office space (of all kinds). Understandably there are serious market challenges at the moment, but surely the longer-term requires a solution?

To say nothing of how this site reminds me that if the old post office was still standing, a condo would have been placed on top of it as well.

 

[1Ć0]

This yet further case of removing office-space in the core makes me wonder if there is anyone in City Hall who is concerned about long-term implications for lack of office space (of all kinds). Understandably there are serious market challenges at the moment, but surely the longer-term requires a solution?

They're definitely studying it - https://www.toronto.ca/city-governm...studies-initiatives/office-space-needs-study/

Doesn't give too much confidence though when all your staff are still working from home. Need to lead by example if they want to see a revived office market in the core

SRRA occupancy index trending in the right direction

 

[rdaner]

^I’ve been puzzled about the concern over the removal of unused office space now negating more space being built in the future when the market signals it’s needed? Is it belief in outdated models? Suspicion of mixed use? Love affair with the 1980s? Sigh

 

[Undead]

The entire notion of office space is woefully outdated when most office work can be done remotely at great benefit to traffic congestion, pollution and human mental well being.

 

[ProjectEnd]

The entire notion of office space is woefully outdated when most office work can be done remotely at great benefit to traffic congestion, pollution and human mental well being.

I don't disagree that workplaces have evolved for the better since the pandemic and worker choice should be at the forefront, but man oh man, you've posted variations on this in multiple threads now, friendo.

 

[taal]

I'm not sure there's really a need to be overly concerned about removing office space - if the demand really peaks - redevelopments will happen, older offices will be torn down and replaced with larger ones.

 

[Northern Light]

The entire notion of office space is woefully outdated when most office work can be done remotely at great benefit to traffic congestion, pollution and human mental well being.

You have a real bugaboo about this topic. That's fine, we all have our preferences. That said..... the world is not tilting your preferred direction just at the moment.

I was one of the first here at UT to call that it was going to go that way from talking to many senior executives.

In the end, I think you'll see us settle, for now, around 90-94% of pre-Covid on average.

There will still be more truly remote work than there was before. But only a small amount more hybrid work.

I think you'll either see full-time return to office, or mandatory 4 days in most work places.

One day, that will shift again........but not just yet.

In the meantime, perhaps you can accept that trends are going in a direction your not crazy about, but for which the world must still plan.

 

[Northern Light]

This yet further case of removing office-space in the core makes me wonder if there is anyone in City Hall who is concerned about long-term implications for lack of office space (of all kinds). Understandably there are serious market challenges at the moment, but surely the longer-term requires a solution?

As I noted in the post above, I fully expect in the medium term a need for additional class A office space in the core.

It needs to be said that what's being removed right now, by and large is class B or C space, and space outside the core.

That space is in substantially lower demand, has a longer recovery time ahead of it; and is more easily replaced.

***

In respect of downtown, there are no shortage of proposals that will bring new Class A space on stream when the market warrants it.

The Hub, 11 Bay, Union Centre, Union Park, and CC 3 are all known and collectively represent over 5Mft2 of potential space.

There were a couple of other proposals being worked on that never reached the public sphere during the last boom as well.

So there's a big pipeline if the need reemerges.

Beyond that, the current market won't support many of the condo/rental proposals removing office space, which means they will stall out for a bit..........should strong demand return by the time the market
is moving again.....the office space can always be reintroduced.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

I occasionally muse at the idea of a world where having big shiny corporate towers there serve as a paperless places to collect and store data and where few are needed there to tend to it's upkeep and security. And to which outside of that, serves a physical symbols for those corporations of their extreme wealth and power. People need not apply to these as they're merely large offensive sculptures with business applications that take up absurd amounts of real estate...

...but until that world happens, they going to have to have people there to do all the paperwork. >.<

 

[Bayer]

I work at home permanently now, but it's very hard to find smaller suites, in the 400 to 600 sq ft range, in high-end buildings; they are just not interested in small tenants. After a few years at 22 College, a class C older building with electrical capacity and climate control issues, the best my business partner and I could ever find was in the Eaton Centre, in their Galleria offices, the ones overlooking the mall on one side or Trinity Square on the other; that was a class B. I loved it there. When they bought out our lease, we couldn't get anything better than 44 Victoria/25 Adelaide East, a class C building owned by Davpart which is 32% vacant at the moment.

 

[Undead]

I don't disagree that workplaces have evolved for the better since the pandemic and worker choice should be at the forefront, but man oh man, you've posted variations on this in multiple threads now, friendo.

Hey you whine about the same thing all the time too.

How many times do we need to hear that HURR DURR the render will nEveR bE aCcuRatE?!11

Friendo.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Hey you whine about the same thing all the time too.

How many times do we need to hear that HURR DURR the render will nEveR bE aCcuRatE?!11

Friendo.

Fair enough. We all have our songbooks, my friend.