[afransen]

No on the job training suggests that you were as productive, effective and accurate on day 1 as you were on day 700. That just doesn't happen in practice.

Learning curve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Any company that does a lot of hiring is well aware of this phenomenon. A lot of work goes into making jobs have as short a learning curve as possible. The shorter the curve, the less costly it is the replace an employee.

 

[Admiral Beez]

LOL - I hate that question too, "Why do you want this job?".

We don‘t ask that question, but we do ask, why do feel you’re the right fit. It doesn’t even need to be a formal cover letter, but our job posts clearly state that any application that does not elaborate on why we should hire them will be rejected. This benefits us in two ways, it reduces the generic CV dumps, and confirms at least a modicum of interest from the applicant.

if you don't want people who are there merely for the pay cheque, stop treating employees as disposable

No one is disposable at our company. We ask in-depth, probing questions because we‘re planning to make a long term investment in someone; someone we who will grow with us, build long-lasting relationships with our clients, suppliers and employees. We don’t hire contracts, but permanent, for the long haul. We hire slow, some may say ponderously slow, but we try to get it right the first time.

My job is to weed out those who don’t GAF beyond getting a pay cheque. And with so many covid layoffs this is tricky work, since many are looking for any survival job they can find to take them through until they can quit and return to whatever they were doing pre-Covid.

 

[TheKingEast]

As someone who went through the job seeking process recently, I'd have to say the best piece of advice (and it was covered here) is not just listing all of your skills but listing your skills and how you used those skills to help the company. So put in as many accomplishments as you have and how it benefited the company. Actually quantify it like "Developed __________ which increased revenue for 2019 by 15%. Spearheaded _______initiative which reduced client issues by 25%. Stuff like that. That is the best piece of advice I got some years ago when I was looking for a job and when I made those changes the interviews started rolling in.

Also, companies list a crapload of requirements...and honestly some are required but many are not and can be learned on the job. I wouldn't let that keep you from applying.

Also not so sure that so many rounds of interviews are necessary. I was applying for more senior tech roles but some companies I had 3-4 rounds of interviews. One was 3 hours long. Not necessary. But I guess this is what happens when there are so many applicants not many jobs to go around. Companies can get as picky as they want.

Don't be afraid to tell companies you have other interviews. Try to get multiple offers as well. I've always been able to get multiple offers and been able to squeeze better offers..and there's a way to do it and not piss off companies at the same time. Also, the 1st offer is never the best offer, counter...it can be more money but also ask for other things like extra week of vacation, WFH privileges, etc.

Lastly make sure you know the pay as quickly as you can. Either check glassdoor but on that first call with HR you should get an idea of what the pay is. Don't go through the whole song and dance of interviews and then find out the pay once you get an offer.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Lastly make sure you know the pay as quickly as you can. Either check glassdoor but on that first call with HR you should get an idea of what the pay is. Don't go through the whole song and dance of interviews and then find out the pay once you get an offer.

We list the pay on the JD. Always have. No point in attracting applicants who don’t like the pay. If I ran the company I would have an open pay office, where there are no secrets about compensation.

edit: forget the cover letter as well for the same reasons outlined above. I just skip the jobs requiring cover letters

Demonstrating a lack of ability to follow instructions through the cover letter’s (or portfolio, references, or whatever has been requested in the JD) omission is not a good start. So, good thing you skipped those jobs, and you may think that you got the upper hand since you’re employed elsewhere, so screw them, so to speak.

But think of the opportunities and potential doors you closed, the forks in the road you declined to take through the lack of a few brief sentences introducing yourself and your resume. And, since many people neglect to provide a cover letter even when asked, by its inclusion you’re already ahead of these other candidates. I suggest, whenever you see a job posting requiring a cover letter that this be seized as an easy jump to the pool of preferred candidates, since most mugs won’t do it. Regardless though, I’m glad you believe your choices have worked out for you.

 

[Undead]

^Agree to disagree.

 

[Deadpool X]

The reason why people ask this question is that money is a poor motivator. You want people who are at least somewhat interested in what the company does and find some satisfaction in the challenges of working on those problems. You do not want someone who took the job because they liked the idea of money but hate the work.

Try lowering the salary by $20,000 while keeping everything else same and see how many feel motivated to apply for that job or continue working in that job for long. Money is not the only factor but it is definitely the biggest factor. People have a lot of other channels to harness their passion (UT for example).

I was very satisfied with my previous job but I was underpaid. I changed my job and got a more than 50% raise. Although I don't like the current job as much (and I knew I wouldn't) but I don't regret making the move at all. But do I work like a zombie in my current job? No, I don't. I give 100% to my job but I used to give 120% to my previous one.

PS - However motivated or hard working you may be, the company won't think twice before laying you off if they don't need your services anymore. So, all this BS on the job postings should be removed and it should be a lot more practical.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I had a reply to all this ready to post, but really it‘s just interesting to see the different POVs. I’ve been working now full time since 1996 and have worked for eight companies over those years. Some were a disaster, some were good. I also ran a private consulting biz on the side to fund my toys. I think after seven attempts, my current job is finally at that balance of competitive income, work/life balance, a product category I like, rewarding work and culture. I was a little worried about working from home during the pandemic, but it‘s all good. I’m 49, and would like to hang it up before I’m 60, if only to run my own biz on the side while I travel or enjoy life. Fingers crossed.

 

[afransen]

I think people might be surprised at how little discretion a hiring manager might have on things like salary (beyond the range). If you're hiring a mercenary, you will likely have to pay more, still have a disengaged employee who easily gets bored and flits off to the next job for a dollar more. I can't blame people for being like that--it's their prerogative. But similarly, people can't blame employers for not seeking to hire these types. Not every company can pay above average, and those jobs with above average remuneration may come with lots of other BS (poor work/life balance, toxic culture, etc.). I can see a young person saying that they don't care about those other things--the only thing that matters is money. Most people with some experience (both professional and life) start to realize that money isn't the only thing to be weighed when deciding how to spend ones career.

 

[Admiral Beez]

those jobs with above average remuneration may come with lots of other BS (poor work/life balance, toxic culture, etc.).

My friend works here, she’s paid above average, but the role has everything you describe. I think this might be her review.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Thanks for sharing this advice. To be honest, it is a great problem for me to find a suitable job. I don't know how to choose a good job, I think that everything is not for me. But I've heard about one interesting resource. Here it is https://ca.jooble.org/jobs/Whitehorse,-YT maybe I could find something interesting

If I was a young single person there‘s no way I would stay in the GTA to search for work. Housing is too expensive, and the region is just too crowded. This is a huge country and yet many young people stay in the big city that their parents by chance chose. In 2004 I moved to Fredericton, NB to start a new job and for three years had a great time, the opportunity saw me travel to China, Israel and Europe for work, and my house cost less than a garage in Toronto.

It’s a big country. Don’t be restricted to where your parents or friends live. Our own immigrant great grandparent, grandparents or parents weren’t. They picked up sticks and traveled to where the opportunities were.

 

[Undead]

^Sure but is there any work in the middle of butt**** nowhere? What was your job in 2004?

 

[lenaitch]

^Sure but is there any work in the middle of butt**** nowhere? What was your job in 2004?

The view that everyplace outside of the GTA is "butt**** nowhere" is self-limiting. If an ideal job came up in a person's field, but it was in Timmins or Brandon, not pursuing it simply on the basis of it is away from friends, family, one's favourite latte shop, etc., or simply 'I'm not going there, makes no sense.

 

[Undead]

The view that everyplace outside of the GTA is "butt**** nowhere" is self-limiting. If an ideal job came up in a person's field, but it was in Timmins or Brandon, not pursuing it simply on the basis of it is away from friends, family, one's favourite latte shop, etc., or simply 'I'm not going there, makes no sense.

The likelihood that a dream job will be in one of those places is nearly zilch

away from friends, family

You underestimate how important this is to people.

 

[lenaitch]

Interestingly, I just came across this in a military-related forum. It is US-based and geared to service personnel making a career change but I thought it had some relevant points:

Congratulations on Your Military Service… Now Here Are 9 Reasons Why I

Having the right skills isn’t always enough to land the job. Avoid these common mistakes to ensure you don’t sabotage your chances.

careerattraction.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

^Sure but is there any work in the middle of butt**** nowhere? What was your job in 2004?

Global sales manager for a division of https://www.nutreco.com/ A recruiter called me when I was working for an agricultural commodity trading company in downtown Toronto and said a firm from NB wants to hire you. I declined at first, saying that I‘d had my second child and we were settled with family nearby in Toronto. But my parents said to me, listen Beez, we left the UK in 1976 for opportunities and adventure, don’t be saddled to our location, wherever you go we can visit. And so we went - I saw my mother in law more then than I did when I lived in Toronto - if they want to see you, they can visit. After three years I decided we‘d seen enough and came back. That was always the plan so we kept the Toronto house as a rental and used the rent to buy a house in NB, four bedroom, detached on half and acre for $192k! We sold it in 2007 for $210k, which after our renos, transfer taxes and realtor commissions was pretty much break even. Had we moved to NS or PEI we’d likely still be there, but central NB is like living in Timmins, I imagine, beautiful to some, but not to my taste. I’m 50 now and looking at moving back, perhaps part of the year to the UK, my grandmother lived on the Isle of Wight and I always loved it there. Only challenge would be getting health care for my non-British wife, the kids have British citizenship and passports through me (the plan was to enable them to study in the EU without visas, but Brexit killed that).

My point, there is unmet needs for skilled workers across Canada. If I was a young person you’d probably find me in Yarmouth or the like, wherever jobs could be had, quality of life was to my liking, and land was cheap.