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If you don't like the church nor its rules, then don't join the church. While we're all venial sinners, there are grave or mortal sins that the church must stand against.

The Catholic, and most Christian church's view on homosexual acts is clear. Homosexual acts are condemned by God and can NEVER be approved by the Church (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Genesis 19:1-29, Romans 1:24-27 and CCC 2357). If homosexuals are born with the condition, then they are called to live a life of Christian purity and chastity for the greater love of Christ. Such people can experience a life of trial, which all others must treat with compassion and sensitivity.

If to you this is a load of hogwash, then the church is not for you. It's their club, and they can set whatever rules they want. Now, Joe Comartin has declared, in the opinion of the church, himself a supporter of homosexual acts, and thus must be dealt with. Assuming he voted with his conscience (and not through lack of backbone) Joe Comartin most likely doesn't support the views of the church anyway.

Again, if this is all rubbish to you, that's perfectly fine. Why this is such a big deal in the media I don't know. If a Budhist or Sikh temple threw out a MP would we hear this much?
 
You just don't pick a church like you pick a barber or stylist, or a golf club. Usually your parents choose it for you soon after birth, and yes you can convert, but it isn't that common.

If that was the attitude - "I don't like the church, so I'm leaving, as I have no right to speak out" then the Catholic Church would still practicing in Latin, still carrying out Inquisitions and frequent exorcisms, and still basing your chances of going to heaven by the money you gave to them. The Catholic church can learn to modernize, and has made steps in the past. There is still a long way to go.

Catholics don't often convert or switch, they just withdraw - look at Quebec. The vast majority of people there are Catholic, yet it is the province with the most support for gay marriage, and also the province with the lowest church attendance.

If homosexuals are born with the condition, then they are called to live a life of Christian purity and chastity for the greater love of Christ.
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Wow.
 
If public opinion evolves to the point where the published "good books" of different religions are eventually deemed to be hate literature aimed at minorities, then limits may have to be placed on the kind of rules such exclusionist clubs can set, given that Canada is not a theocracy.
 
The great thing about the "good books" is that they can be used to suit any argument you like - in fact, people on both sides of a debate can, and do use quotes from the same book extensively.
 
Now, Joe Comartin has declared, in the opinion of the church, himself a supporter of homosexual acts, and thus must be dealt with
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Hmm, I wonder what happens to all those Catholic adulters in society...did they get "dealt with" as well?

If a Budhist or Sikh temple threw out a MP would we hear this much?
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Had one did so, thus far?

GB
 
Now, Joe Comartin has declared, in the opinion of the church, himself a supporter of homosexual acts, and thus must be dealt with. Assuming he voted with his conscience (and not through lack of backbone) Joe Comartin most likely doesn't support the views of the church anyway.
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Not that I believe in god, but the bible does explicitly state that god, not the parish priest, not the holy father, not the little old woman sitting in the back pugh, is the ultimate judge.

I think a couple of little old bible stories would be apropos here. One about a man named Jesus, pharisees, a prostitute and adhering to religious law. Another about taking the plank out of your own eye before you notify others of the plank in their eye.

Alas, such is the contradictory nature of religion, you pick and choose what you like and you interpret things how you like.
 
The Catholic church can learn to modernize, and has made steps in the past.
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I'm not all that much of a church go'er myself, but if you think the Catholic church will one day accept same-sex buggery and SSM as blessed events, I think you're dreaming. Now, a good start would be giving women more representation, but even that is likely not to occur. I actually respect the Church's position, in that they've outlined the rules, asked those that can agree to join them and refused to change the rules for those that joined the Church without accepting the rules.
Hmm, I wonder what happens to all those Catholic adulters in society...did they get "dealt with" as well?
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Different situation MOD, and I'm surprised you fell for that flawed logic (usually I'm the one left stammering). The CC does not "evict" adulterers, homosexuals or anyone for that matter based on their personal activities (unless they're a risk to others). However, if a parishioner was advocating national support and legitimacy of adultery and demanding equality for adultery to marriage, well, yes that person should expect consequences. Again, however, if you're advocating adultery, then the RCC's not for you anyway, since you're not following it's way.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the RCC's position is the right one, it's not my job to judge others nor their activities. I am suggesting that this MP was naive not to expect some consequences. Furthermore, I don't understand why the church's position on SSM is such a big deal, since you're not forced to join, and can happily ignore the church without personal consequence until you expire.
 
However, if a parishioner was advocating national support and legitimacy of adultery and demanding equality for adultery to marriage, well, yes that person should expect consequences. Again, however, if you're advocating adultery, then the RCC's not for you anyway, since you're not following it's way.
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Remember that it was a Catholic MP that reformed the divorce laws back in 1967 - the Church says it is an comittment for life, but that MP was never ejected from the church - nor those thousands of family lawyers. There is a lot of hypocracy in this move by the Bishop of London. And it was other bishops as well, such as the Bishop of Calgary that threatened to ban Martin (a Catholic) and all MPs that supported same sex marriage from Communion.

The Catholic Church is supposed to be about ritual and basic beliefs that make it different from any other church, not the top-down moral police that it has become after centuries of bloated bureaucracy and ultra-conservative leadership. That is what led to so-called "smorgasboard Catholics" - those who accept the core beliefs, but not necessarily the decrees that come from Vatican City.
 
I think you have it backwards. The Protestant Churches, like the United Church and Unitarians are about ritual and basic beliefs while the Catholic Church is all about moral police, bureaucracy and ultra-conservative leadership. There are Protestant Churches in Canada, for example that have strong EGALE representation and support.

here's a good site on the differences geneva.rutgers.edu/src/ch...hurch.html

In the Catholic Church, decisions are made by the ecumenical council, and direct papal decision. In most Protestant congregational churches, however, each congregation is independent. They assign their own pastor and make their own decisions. No higher level body can intervene, there is no bureaucracy.
 
Fighting Madd:

Different situation MOD, and I'm surprised you fell for that flawed logic (usually I'm the one left stammering). The CC does not "evict" adulterers, homosexuals or anyone for that matter based on their personal activities (unless they're a risk to others). However, if a parishioner was advocating national support and legitimacy of adultery and demanding equality for adultery to marriage, well, yes that person should expect consequences. Again, however, if you're advocating adultery, then the RCC's not for you anyway, since you're not following it's way.
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Let me get this "straight" - someone who practices adultry isn't "in support" of it, and in spite of the fact that such an act has been condemned by the Bible (in the 10 Commandments, no less, unlike homosexuality), the Church more or less couldn't care less.

Now come a straight MP who voted for a piece of legislation that allows for same-sex marriage, in congruence of the policy of his party and likely with the support of a large chunk of his constituents, and the RC acts all regal (as if it was a big deal)? I don't know about you, but this is rather rich, don't you think?

Oh and re: the club - I can't think of any other "clubs" that can have such systematically discrminatory policies and yet receives so much special treatment from the government.

GB
 
Furthermore, I don't understand why the church's position on SSM is such a big deal, since you're not forced to join, and can happily ignore the church without personal consequence until you expire.
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it's a big deal because the church is trying to impose its beliefs on non-catholics by getting them into law. that makes it impossible to ignore the church. until it (and other churches, but the catholic church is the most vocal) can accept that its rules are separate from federal laws, it'll continue to be fair game for criticism.
 
We've banned private health care like North Korea and China and now we have same-sex marriage like Belgium and the Netherlands. What a filthy left-wing, pinko, commie, socialist cesspool we live in! :b
 
same-sex buggery
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Typical bigotry. "Love the sinner, hate the sin." This completely ignores the fact that there is no sexual act practised by gays that is not also practised by straights. But no one mentions it in relation to straights - it is always used as an excuse for condescension toward gays.

Ah, well. As the events of today have shown, the world continues to move forward. Whether the Catholic church stays stuck in the past or gets dragged forward, kicking and screaming... I couldn't care less. Not my problem if they want to delude themselves.
 
"Catholics don't often convert or switch, they just withdraw"

Why would you convert when you can just do whatever you want all your life, then wipe it all away with one quick confession that whisks you off to heaven? The Catholic Church has always been multi-faceted, offering as much or as little as a person chooses to take part in

Most Catholics I know - which is like 90% of everyone I've ever met - don't really care at all what the Catholic Church today has to say about anything. Their positions haven't changed for hundreds of years and why should they? If people are so upset, form a new religion like they used to do back in the 16th century...

If the Vatican decreed something new or crazy, older people like my grandmother wouldn't listen; her "Catholic" opinions are entrenched and are also inseparable from and insignificant compared to the general opinions she shares with anyone in society who "lived through the depression." Even the Pope doesn't live in a bubble where official decrees have anywhere close to the influence or relevance of anything secular society can through back in their face. They know their only option is to stick to their own rules.

Don't make the mistake of confusing a couple of hardcore priests (and other troublemakers with nothing better to do, kind of like aging, right-wing versions of WTO protesters) with the other 99% of Catholics who really don't care if the same-sex marriage bill passes as long as it has no conceivable negative effects on themselves.

"there is no sexual act practised by gays that is not also practised by straights."

How exactly would a straight couple perform "same-sex buggery"?
 
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