afransen
Senior Member
You sound like a good candidate for GO.
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- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
TOareaFan
Superstar
If the last train home wasn't 5:45 then I might be.
lordmandeep
Banned
yes the 6:45 only goes to Bramalea...
nfitz
Superstar
According to the long-term models, the traffic is only going to get worse (unless someone has the balls to toll).
I'd change my schedule and get myself on that last train. Though in the longer term, there will be more and more trains.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I will say this again.....as one of the people who use the inbound roads (particularly the Gardiner which is the most often noted target of tolls)...tolls without viable transit options will not reduce car traffic. They will result in one of two things (or a combo of the two):
1. A massive tax grab (not saying that is bad but that is what will happen) from people who are not driving out of choice but are driving out of necessity.
2. A shift of the traffic on to non-tolled (ie. more local) roads as some of those drivers need to escape the tax grab but still need to drive.
This is not London where there was full and viable transit options from all directions prior to the congestion charge coming in.
I'll get a memo right out on that.....because that is how the real world works.....transit should not be adaptive to the working/living culture of the city...it should determine that culture
A promise that I have been hearing for a very long time. Even today, as it is clear work is being done.....the only thing GO have ever promised (that I have seen) for Georgetown...is the stretching of the current extended (by that line's standards) to Bramalea being extended through Brampton.
I know that Metrolinx have set a within 15 years goal of having a full two way express service......but I have yet to see anyone from GO aknowledge support of that....of course I might have missed it.
DavidH
Senior Member
Take a look at GO2020 and you'll see GO planning for it within 12 years. Note that this was published about a month after the Metrolinx RTP was released.
http://www.gotransit.com/PUBLIC/en/publications/GOTransitStrategicPlanGO2020_lowres.pdf
14MB download, BTW. The key page for this discussion is pdf page 34 (document page 30).
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I read this quickly when it first came out......I will re-read it but I remember smirking when I read it because even though it was reported in the media that this meant full all day two-way train service on all of the lines, I was not able to find language in it similar to the Metrolinx language (where they recommend trains running on tracks both ways every day all day on the Georgetown line within 15 years)....what I found for non-lakeshore lines was language like this (I was able to go quickly to this because on my initial read this paragraph grated on me and stuck out):
Buses to trains – Off-peak service on the Milton, Stouffville, Georgetown, Barrie, and Richmond Hill lines is currently being provided by express
buses that GO calls “train-buses,” which have proven a very economical and flexible way of serving the modest demand during the off-peak
hours. As demand increases, and track capacity and funding allow, higher-capacity trains running every 30 or 60 minutes will replace the buses.
Like I said, I will go back and read the document again....but I do not remember reading a line that says "by 2020 the Georgetown line will have all day-two way-every day train service"
Forget that.....I see it in a table that I must have ignored/scanned wrongly in my anger over the above statement that seemed to be giving an "out"....I stand corrected and thank you for leading me to re-read that.
So, to go back to the topic of tolling.....I would be all in favour of it starting on January 1, 2021 (assuming this plan is implemented)....then you have given people options....you could borrow the money (as we seem to do a lot lately
) on special, segregated bonds, capitalize the interest on the bonds until that date and then repay the bonds from the revenue generated by the new road tolls.....once the cost of this plan is paid for you could keep the tolls in place to pay for other things (like, perhaps, an operating subsidy on the transit lines to make them even cheaper) or take them off and hope that behaviour modification has kicked in sufficiently that people do not go back to their cars.EDIT #2.....I take it back.....I re-read the those two pages again (thinking "how could I have got that so wrong")....I didn't! Reading the above paragraph again in conjunction with the table....all that they have promised is Peak rail service every 15 minutes.....and Off Peak service that is twice hourly......but it does not say that this off peak service is by train and when you read that in conjunction with the paragraph above (taken from page 27) it is entirely understandable how I could have taken it the way I did originally......So, back to my original point (wow...long way and many edits to get here!!!)....is there a statement by GO anywhere (like there is from Metrolinx) where they commit to every day, two way, all day rail service on the Georgetown line?
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nfitz
Superstar
There are already viable options for many - there will never be for all.
But as there's clearly a long-term plan to put in the viable transit options, then I don't see why there shouldn't also be a long-term plan to put in the tolls.
As you DO use one of these routes, and have seen the state of the traffic, I'm sure you're as keen as I am (who also has to frequently drive on the roads) to see the tolls as soon as possible, as even if it only reduces traffic 10 to 20%, it would significantly reduce congestion, and let those of us who need to use the highway, actually get somewhere.
DavidH
Senior Member
As stated above, the table on page 34 explicitly makes that statement. For offpeak service, it reads "all day train service twice hourly to Mount Pleasant with bus service to Georgetown and Guelph". I don't see how this could be clearer.
I agree that the paragraph you quote throws some confusion into the mix, but the table is clearly intended to be the detailed description. The paragraph, I think, is there to say that GO will prioritize doing the things in the table based on demand and funding.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I agree with a long term plan......base it on an expected level of improved/more frequent GO service is expected on more than just the Lakeshore line.
Say when service levels get to "X" in year "Y" tolls will be put on road "Z". What I would be opposed to is the imposition of tolls now when the transit gap is so wide.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So it does...so my second read was better than my first or third!!!!
Seems my eyes diverted down a row to "All-day service twice hourly
between Union Station and Hamilton." (which makes no sense)
I gotta stop reading or get my eyes fixed!
PS.....I think decisions on priorities should be made on the combination of demand, funding and potential....but that is probably splitting hairs.
Thanks again....go back to my middle position....toll every road in the GTA (well, not every) on January 1, 2021!!!
DavidH
Senior Member
If it helps, the map on pdf page 20 is another source of this information. The orange parts of the lines are "Core service" and are described as having "all day 2-way rail service, every 15-20 minutes or better during the peak and ever 30 minutes or better off-peak".
TOareaFan
Superstar
You have convinced me already.....now I just have to hang on to my job until 2020 to make use of this....!!!!
DavidH
Senior Member
I wasn't trying to reconvince you, but it occurred to me that I should have pointed to the map first because I think it makes the point more clearly than the table does.
Unfortunately, I can't help you with the job front. Personally, I think I'll be disappointed if I'm still at the same employer in a dozen years.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I wasn't trying to reconvince you, but it occurred to me that I should have pointed to the map first because I think it makes the point more clearly than the table does.
Unfortunately, I can't help you with the job front. Personally, I think I'll be disappointed if I'm still at the same employer in a dozen years.
In all honesty....I think I will be disappointed if I have any employer in a dozen years.....by then I want to be done or, at least, answering only to myself!