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kEiThZ said:
Anybody who says this doesn't know how centrifuges work.
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That's not really important here. What is important is the claim from a variety of sources that Iran was close to making weapons grade uranium for the last 20 years or so..and has never really done so. And is being bombed by two counties currently based on that assertion...

...would it not be reasonable to suggest outside the hate-on for Iran, that this is bit like Chicken Little declaring the sky is falling in the extreme?
 
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EBT said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1936736745791349187

FULL STATEMENT from Russia's Dmitry Medvedev, former Russian president and current deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council:

“Trump, who came in as a peacemaker president, has started a new war for the U.S. With this kind of success, Trump won't win the Nobel Peace Prize.”Leonid Slutsky, head of the State Duma’s international affairs committee: “The consequences of the escalation threaten to go beyond the region. Washington understands the inevitability of Tehran's response. All this brings the spiral of confrontation to a new level and increases the risks of World War III.”Source: Reuters
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Oh hey. Let's listen to those great Russian peacemakers instead.

You seriously going to quote Medvedev? I get that you don't like Trump (neither do I), and that the leftist in you is instinctively programmed to hate everything Americans (particularly Republicans do). But turning to Russians? Seriously?
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
That's not really important here. What is important is the claim from a variety of sources that Iran was close to making weapons grade uranium for the last 20 years or so..and has never really done so. And is being bombed by two counties currently based on that assertion...

...would it not be reasonable to suggest outside the hate-on for Iran, that this is bit like Chicken Little declaring the sky is falling in the extreme?
Click to expand...

I don't think they were that close. The USIC testified that they were 3 years away. That's neither here nor there. There will never be an opportunity like this again, where Iran's proxies are so severely battered, and their defences substantially decimated. It's opportunistic. And that's how these things work. The idea that anybody should wait until their adversary is days away from a nuclear demonstration is patently absurd. Killing a program as early as possible clearly avoids much worse outcomes (including wider contamination and fallout).

Imagine where the world would be if Osirak in Iraq wasn't destroyed before being fueled. Likewise for Al Kibar in Syria.

There's also this weird idea that anybody should be able to have nukes. Ultimately this comes down to trust. I trust that Ukraine would only use nukes defensively against existential threats. I don't trust that Iran's Ayatollahs wouldn't use nukes to shield themselves from consequences while they sponsor terrorists and insurgents around the world. Heck, Hezbollah now has a Latin American franchise. Why exactly do they need that?

I'm not going to say that Netanyahu and Trump aren't innocent and honourable figures. They are crooks, very much motivated by personal politics and gain. None of that means the strike wasn't necessary or wrong. That's just how geopolitics works unfortunately.
 
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EBT said:
This tweet from former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter (who said back in 2002 that Iraq did NOT have WMDs) proves my above point!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936732179758801257

FULL TEXT:

MAGA is officially dead as a movement.When a President wears a MAGA hat while conspiring to take America to war after promising that, as the leader of MAGA, he would pursue peace, MAGA stands for nothing.If you’re MAGA, then you must disassociate yourself from this President and everyone who stands with him.They are not MAGA.They are Israel first.And that’s the most dangerous ideology facing America today.RIP, MAGA.We hardly knew Ye.
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And Scott Ritter the pedophile too?

How much Russian propaganda is on your feed?

Simple question: Do you think Ukraine has the right to defend itself and join the EU?
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
If I was Congress, I would be looking to strip Don of all his power. Kinda like what our City did to Rob back in the day...but I am basing that on the assumption that Congress would grow a spine to begin with. >.<
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Spine or not, they could possibly curtail or delay some of his actions but cannot strip him of what their Constitution (and previous SCOTUS rulings regarding previous presidential powers) allows him.
 
EBT said:
This tweet from former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter (who said back in 2002 that Iraq did NOT have WMDs) proves my above point!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936732179758801257

FULL TEXT:

MAGA is officially dead as a movement.When a President wears a MAGA hat while conspiring to take America to war after promising that, as the leader of MAGA, he would pursue peace, MAGA stands for nothing.If you’re MAGA, then you must disassociate yourself from this President and everyone who stands with him.They are not MAGA.They are Israel first.And that’s the most dangerous ideology facing America today.RIP, MAGA.We hardly knew Ye.
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Ritter is now a propagandist for Putin's Russia, I would have some HUGE reservations about him not having an 'angle' here. See: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/26936
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't think they were that close. The USIC testified that they were 3 years away. That's neither here nor there. There will never be an opportunity like this again, where Iran's proxies are so severely battered, and their defences substantially decimated. It's opportunistic. And that's how these things work. The idea that anybody should wait until their adversary is days away from a nuclear demonstration is patently absurd. Killing a program as early as possible clearly avoids much worse outcomes (including wider contamination and fallout).

Imagine where the world would be if Osirak in Iraq wasn't destroyed before being fueled. Likewise for Al Kibar in Syria.
Click to expand...
While I get the reasons to a degree why other jurisdictions have issues with Iran, I will never support the discriminate or indiscriminate bombing of them or anyone based on suspicion and innuendo, no matter how noble the cause, the strategic reasonings or the governments involved are in doing the bombing. As this will most likely have destabilizing consequences for years to come. As well as embolden Iran here to seek nukes more then ever now..the opposite effect of what was claimed to be intended. And not to mention, the human costs, toll and misery this action has caused in the immediacy. It's just awful all around...

kEiThZ said:
There's also this weird idea that anybody should be able to have nukes. Ultimately this comes down to trust. I trust that Ukraine would only use nukes defensively against existential threats. I don't trust that Iran's Ayatollahs wouldn't use nukes to shield themselves from consequences while they sponsor terrorists and insurgents around the world. Heck, Hezbollah now has a Latin American franchise. Why exactly do they need that?

I'm not going to say that Netanyahu and Trump aren't innocent and honourable figures. They are crooks, very much motivated by personal politics and gain. None of that means the strike wasn't necessary or wrong. That's just how geopolitics works unfortunately.
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...the irony here is that if Iran had nukes, I doubt this offensive would of taken place. Not that I agree with that,..as using something that will blow us all up as a deterrent should never sit well with anyone, IMO.
 
lenaitch said:
Spine or not, they could possibly curtail or delay some of his actions but cannot strip him of what their Constitution (and previous SCOTUS rulings regarding previous presidential powers) allows him.
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I figured as much as what I was saying was pure wishful thinking here. As I am also painfully aware that SCOTUS will always side with Trump and his goons, unless it's in their interests not to do so. And impartiality be damned! /bleh
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
As well as embolden Iran here to seek nukes more then ever now
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They were never less motivated. The only difference was that they were rate limited by how fast they could get there by the controls and sanctions. It was worth the hassle to them to keep going in the open. But they would have reached a point where they could boot out the inspectors and move quickly towards weapons.

UtakataNoAnnex said:
While I get the reasons to a degree why other jurisdictions have issues with Iran, I will never support the discriminate or indiscriminate bombing of them or anyone based on suspicion and innuendo, no matter how noble the cause, the strategic reasonings or the governments involved are in doing the bombing.
Click to expand...

Unless you have an American passport, it's kind of irrelevant what you think. Likewise for me. Just saying....

UtakataNoAnnex said:
...the irony here is that if Iran had nukes, I doubt this offensive would of taken place.
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Which is exactly why it had to happen. They'd be untouchable if they had nukes. And their current reign of terror would expand. Amazing to me how those worried about Iranians or war right now have amnesia over the decades of support the Ayatollahs gave to groups that destabilized several countries and lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths.
 
kEiThZ said:
Which is exactly why it had to happen. They'd be untouchable if they had nukes. And their current reign of terror would expand. Amazing to me how those worried about Iranians or war right now have amnesia over the decades of support the Ayatollahs gave to groups that destabilized several countries and lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths.
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...then we'll have to agree to disagree here. As I said, I cannot in good consciousness except that. At all. So might as well move on from here. Thanks for your time though. /bows
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
...then we'll have to agree to disagree here. As I said, I cannot in good consciousness except that. At all. So might as well move on from here. Thanks for your time though. /bows
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Indeed. There's not much of a defence for considering some lives more disposable than others based exclusively on ideology. At least the Islamists in Tehran are honest about that.....
 
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