[AlbertC]

More about the plot to abduct Gretchen Whitmer:

FBI busts militia 'plot' to abduct Michigan Gov Gretchen Whitmer

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has become a target of coronavirus lockdown sceptics.

www.bbc.com

According to a sworn FBI affidavit, an undercover law enforcement source attended a June meeting in Dublin, Ohio, where a group of Michigan-based militia members discussed overthrowing state governments "that they believed were violating the US Constitution".

"Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," the charging document states. In one video, a suspect denounced the state's role in deciding when to reopen gyms during the coronavirus lockdown.

The men met in a basement that was accessed by a trapdoor hidden under a rug, investigators say. Their phones were gathered and placed in another room to avoid secret recordings, but the undercover FBI source was wearing a separate recording device.

Thirteen people were arrested by investigators.

Six men - five from Michigan and one from Delaware - are accused in federal court of plotting the kidnap. They allegedly planned to hold a "treason trial" against Mrs Whitmer.

These six were named as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, Brandon Casert and Ty Garbin. Mr Garbin's residence, in a trailer park, was raided by authorities on Wednesday.

The other seven face charges of terrorism and gang-related offences in state court in connection with the alleged abduction plot.

They are Paul Bellar, Shawn Fix, Eric Molitor, Michael Null, William Null, Pete Musico and Joseph Morrison.

The group wished to gather about "200 men" to storm the capitol building and take hostages, including the governor. They hoped to enact their plan before the November presidential election. If that failed, they planned to attack the governor at her home, officials say.

The accused "co-ordinated surveillance of the governor's vacation home", said the US Attorney for the Western District of Michigan, adding that they also planned Molotov cocktail attacks on police officers, purchased a taser, and pooled their funds to purchase explosives and tactical equipment.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

No words of sympathy from Donald Trump to Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. Instead...

Trump criticizes Whitmer after FBI foiled plot to kidnap Michigan governor

From link.

President Donald Trump criticized Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s actions to limit the spread of COVID-19 the same day it was announced that 13 men planned to abduct Whitmer, kill police officers and attack the state Capitol in Lansing partly in response to her executive orders.

A federal criminal complaint was filed against six men based on an ongoing FBI investigation, while Attorney General Dana Nessel charged seven additional men with violations of state anti-terrorism, gang membership and firearm laws. The 13 suspects allegedly planned to apprehend Whitmer and put her on “trial" for “treason” before the Nov. 3 election.

Several members of the group were members identified by Nessel’s office as participants at armed protests against Whitmer’s orders to close businesses and limit public gatherings during the coronavirus pandemic. This includes an April 30 protest inside Michigan’s Capitol, and a May 18 rally in downtown Grand Rapids.

Whitmer invoked the president, who had expressed support for protesters who stormed the Capitol and frequently criticized her coronavirus response, during a Thursday press conference.

“Just last week, the president of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups,” Whitmer said.

"Stand back and stand by, he told them. Stand back and Stand by. Hate groups heard the president’s words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action.

“When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight. when our leaders meet with, encourage, or fraternize with domestic terrorists they legitimize their actions and they are complicit. When they stoke and contribute to hate speech, they are complicit,” Whitmer said.

Trump responded in a series of statements posted to Twitter before the president joined Sean Hannity’s Fox News show Thursday night. He continued to criticize Michigan’s Democratic governor during the interview.

“I see Whitmer today, she’s complaining, but it was our Justice Department that arrested the people she was complaining about,” Trump said. “It was my Justice Department that arrested them, but instead she goes and does her little political act.”

Trump falsely claimed that Michigan’s schools and churches are closed under Whitmer’s orders, and again called on her to open the state.

“The people are being hurt very badly by it in the form of drinking and suicides and depression,” Trump said. “It’s a very sad thing.”

Whitmer responded to the president’s tweets Thursday evening.

Whitmer joked that she thought Trump wasn’t interested in a “virtual debate." Trump threatened not to participate in the next debate after the Commission on Presidential Debates announcing it would be held online due to coronavirus concerns.

Trump was diagnosed with the coronavirus a few days after participating in the first debate. He was hospitalized over the following weekend and has been recovering in the White House this week.

Whitmer said on Twitter that people should vote in the upcoming election if they’re “as tired of this divisive rhetoric as I am.” Whitmer endorsed Trump’s opponent, Democratic nominee Joe Biden, and serves as an adviser to his campaign.

Biden said he and his running mate Kamala Harris spoke with Whitmer Thursday. The former vice president said the conspiracy unraveled by state and federal law enforcement is “the kind of twisted plot we expect from ISIS, but now it’s here at home.”

“I am grateful that she and her family are safe, and I commend the FBI and other law enforcement officers for their work to prevent this deranged act by emboldened domestic terrorists,” Biden said in a statement.

Biden also noted Trump’s opposition to Whitmer’s emergency orders.

“When Governor Whitmer worked to protect the people of her state from a deadly pandemic and saved countless lives, President Trump issued a call to ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ That call was heard," Biden said. “When protesters with Swastikas and Confederate flags, nooses, and assault rifles descended on Michigan’s capitol echoing the President’s own refrain to “lock her up,” President Trump called them ‘very good people.’

“There is a throughline from President Trump’s dog whistles and tolerance of hate, vengeance, and lawlessness to plots such as this one. He is giving oxygen to the bigotry and hate we see on the march in our country. We have to stop it.”

U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan Andrew Birge said the FBI first learned of violent plans to overthrow “certain governments” and attack law enforcement earlier this year. Suspects met in Ohio in June to discuss creating a new society and ultimately decided to recruit more members to murder “tyrants” who were violating the U.S. Constitution, including Whitmer.

Through secret recordings, informants and other confidential sources, “law enforcement learned particular individuals were planning to kidnap the governor and acting in furtherance of that plan.”

Search warrants were executed and arrests made across the state, Nessel said at a press conference Thursday, including at locations in Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Luther, Hartland, Canton, Orion Township, Waterford, Belleville, Milford, Cadillac, Shelbyville, Plainwell, Zeeland, Munising, Ovid, Charlotte, Clarkston, Sterling Heights and Shelby Township.

The federal complaint charges Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, and Brandon Caserta with conspiring to kidnap the governor of Michigan from her vacation home prior to the November election, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan Andrew Birge said.

Arrests occurred on Oct. 7 and included other suspects who are not part of the federal case. Those suspects are charged with crimes under Michigan’s anti-terrorism laws and include: Paul Bellar, 21, of Milford; Shawn Fix, 38, of Belleville; Eric Molitor, 36, of Cadillac; Michael Null, 38, of Plainwell; William Null, 38, of Shelbyville; and roommates Pete Musico, 42, and Joseph Morrison, 42, of Munith.

Musico and Morrison were arraigned Thursday and each ordered to be held in the Jackson County Jail on $10 million bonds.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

How Much Would Trump's Coronavirus Treatment Cost Most Americans?

From link.

President Donald Trump spent three days in the hospital. He arrived and left by helicopter. And he received multiple coronavirus tests, oxygen, steroids and an experimental antibody treatment.

For someone who isn’t president, that would cost more than $100,000 in the American health system. Patients could face significant surprise bills and medical debt even after health insurance paid its share.

The biggest financial risks would come not from the hospital stay but from the services provided elsewhere, including helicopter transit and repeated coronavirus testing.

Trump has praised the high quality of care he received at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, and has played down the risk of the virus. “Don’t be afraid of Covid,” Trump tweeted on Monday, before returning to the White House. “Don’t let it dominate your life.”

Across the country, patients have struggled with both the long-term health and financial effects of contracting coronavirus. Nearly half a million have been hospitalized. Routine tests can result in thousands of dollars in uncovered charges; hospitalized patients have received bills upward of $400,000.

Trump did not have to worry about the costs of his care, which are covered by the federal government. Most Americans, including many who carry health coverage, do worry about receiving medical care they cannot afford.

For some Americans, the bills could start mounting with frequent tests. Insurers are generally required to pay for those tests when physicians order them, but not when employers do.

The Trump administration made that clear in June, when it issued guidance stating that insurers do not have to pay for “testing conducted to screen for general workplace health and safety.” Instead, patients need to pay for that type of testing themselves. Some might be able to get free tests at public sites, and some employers may voluntarily cover the costs. Others could face significant medical debt from tests delivered at hospitals or urgent care centers.

COVID tests can be expensive. Although they typically cost $100, one emergency room in Texas has charged as much as $6,408 for a drive-through test. About 2.4% of coronavirus tests billed to insurers leave the patient responsible for some portion of payment, according to the health data firm Castlight. With 108 million tests performed in the United States, that could amount to millions of tests that leave patients responsible for some share of the cost.

Marta Bartan, who works as a hair colorist in New York City, needed a coronavirus test to return to her job this summer. She received a $1,394 bill from the hospital running the drive-through site where she was tested.

“I was so confused,” said Bartan, who is contesting the bill. “You go in to get a COVID test expecting it to be free. What could they have possibly charged me $1,400 for?”

The bills for the typical American would continue at the hospital, with the routine monitoring that any patient would receive and the drugs provided in the course of care.

Remdesivir, a new coronavirus treatment created by Gilead, costs $3,120 when purchased by private insurers and $2,340 with public programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

Trump also received an experimental antibody treatment from Regeneron. It’s currently available to clinical trial participants or to those granted a “compassionate use” exemption. In either situation, the drug would typically be provided to the patient at no charge. This will most likely change, however, when the treatment finishes trials and hits the commercial market. These types of drugs are hard to manufacture, and other monoclonal antibodies cost thousands of dollars.

Health economists are only starting to understand the full costs of coronavirus treatment, just as scientists are mapping out how the disease works and spreads. They do have some early estimates: The median charge for a coronavirus hospitalization for a patient over 60 is $61,912, according to a claims database, FAIR Health.

That figure includes any medical care during the hospital stay, such as an emergency room visit that led to admission or drugs provided by the hospital.

For insured patients, that price would typically be negotiated lower by their health plan. FAIR Health estimates that the median amount paid is $31,575. That amount, like most things in American health care, varies significantly from one patient to another.

In the FAIR Health data on coronavirus patients over 60, one-quarter face charges less than $26,821 for their hospital stay. Another quarter face charges higher than $193,149, in part because of longer stays.

Many, but not all, health insurers have said they will not apply copayments or deductibles to patients’ coronavirus hospital stays, which could help shield patients from large bills.

Uninsured patients, however, could be stuck with the entire hospital charges and not receive any discounts. While the Trump administration did set up a fund to cover coronavirus testing and treatment costs for the uninsured, The New York Times has reported that some Americans without health insurance have received large bills for their hospital stays.

The biggest billing risk for a patient receiving treatment similar to Trump’s would probably come from helicopter rides to the hospital.

Air ambulances are expensive and often not in major health insurance plans’ networks. The median charge for an air ambulance is $38,770, according to a study in the journal Health Affairs published this year. When the helicopter trip is out of network — as about three-quarters of them are — patients are left with a median charge of $21,698 after the insurance payout.

Taking two helicopter rides, as Trump did, could plausibly result in more than $40,000 in medical debt for patients without access to their own aircraft (though of course most people do not leave the hospital by helicopter).

The financial consequences of a coronavirus hospitalization could be long-lasting, if a new Supreme Court challenge to the Affordable Care Act is successful. That case argues that all of Obamacare is unconstitutional, including the health law’s protections for preexisting conditions. The administration filed a brief in June supporting the challenge.

The Supreme Court hears that case on Nov. 10. If the challenge succeeds, COVID-19 could join a long list of preexisting conditions that would leave patients facing higher premiums or denials of coverage. In that case, coronavirus survivors could face a future in which their hospital stays increase their health costs for years to come.

This article originally appeared in The New York Times.

 

[Johnny Au]

More about the plot to abduct Gretchen Whitmer:

FBI busts militia 'plot' to abduct Michigan Gov Gretchen Whitmer

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has become a target of coronavirus lockdown sceptics.

www.bbc.com

According to a sworn FBI affidavit, an undercover law enforcement source attended a June meeting in Dublin, Ohio, where a group of Michigan-based militia members discussed overthrowing state governments "that they believed were violating the US Constitution".

"Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," the charging document states. In one video, a suspect denounced the state's role in deciding when to reopen gyms during the coronavirus lockdown.

The men met in a basement that was accessed by a trapdoor hidden under a rug, investigators say. Their phones were gathered and placed in another room to avoid secret recordings, but the undercover FBI source was wearing a separate recording device.

Thirteen people were arrested by investigators.

Six men - five from Michigan and one from Delaware - are accused in federal court of plotting the kidnap. They allegedly planned to hold a "treason trial" against Mrs Whitmer.

These six were named as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, Brandon Casert and Ty Garbin. Mr Garbin's residence, in a trailer park, was raided by authorities on Wednesday.

The other seven face charges of terrorism and gang-related offences in state court in connection with the alleged abduction plot.

They are Paul Bellar, Shawn Fix, Eric Molitor, Michael Null, William Null, Pete Musico and Joseph Morrison.

The group wished to gather about "200 men" to storm the capitol building and take hostages, including the governor. They hoped to enact their plan before the November presidential election. If that failed, they planned to attack the governor at her home, officials say.

The accused "co-ordinated surveillance of the governor's vacation home", said the US Attorney for the Western District of Michigan, adding that they also planned Molotov cocktail attacks on police officers, purchased a taser, and pooled their funds to purchase explosives and tactical equipment.

This could have instigated the Second American Civil War if the plot to abduct governor Whitmer were successful.

 

[Coolstar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314689952651804674

 

[Richard White]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314689952651804674

Personally I'd like to see Biden say screw you and do a virtual town hall of his own in place of a debate

 

[adma]

Personally I'd like to see Biden say screw you and do a virtual town hall of his own in place of a debate

And that's what he's done.

Joe Biden says he will hold a solo town hall after Trump backed out of the next debate

After Biden's announcement, Trump's campaign manager called for two in-person debates, each delayed by a week, to October 22 and 29.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

This could have instigated the Second American Civil War if the plot to abduct governor Whitmer were successful.

No it wouldn’t have. MLK, JFK and RK all shot and killed, no civil war.

Why do these guys always look like FAS low brow types?

Michigan Gov. Whitmer was ‘moved around’ as officials tracked her plotters

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and her family were “moved around” as authorities tracked the men who were allegedly plotting to kidnap her, the state’s attorney general said Friday. Dana Nessel sai…

nypost.com

 

[lenaitch]

No it wouldn’t have. MLK, JFK and RK all shot and killed, no civil war.

Why do these guys always look like FAS low brow types?

Michigan Gov. Whitmer was ‘moved around’ as officials tracked her plotters

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and her family were “moved around” as authorities tracked the men who were allegedly plotting to kidnap her, the state’s attorney general said Friday. Dana Nessel sai…

nypost.com

And we our own terrorist incident in 1970 - the FLQ crisis. One Minister of the Crown and a foreign government representative kidnapped; one killed. Preceded by over 900 bombings over several years.

Our nation survived.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And we our own terrorist incident in 1970 - the FLQ crisis. One Minister of the Crown and a foreign government representative kidnapped; one killed. Preceded by over 900 bombings over several years.

Our nation survived.

I am not sure how comparable our FLQ crisis to what's happening in the US (that's not to say the incident in Michigan will lead to civil war); there is less general/diffuse hyperpolarization in Canadian society at the time, and certainly much less government dysfunction. US is a powderkeg, further inflamed by a chief executive that is willing to endorse radical groups for his own benefit - and that's amidst a period of great economic and social stress in society. And there is a cherry on top - an upcoming, potentially contested election - with scenarios that could increase chaos even further. Nothing can be more destabilizing than a transition of power viewed as illegitimate by a substantial, and heavily armed segment of the population (and worse - if the outgoing power actively promote that view in order to cling to power).

AoD

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

George Wallace was a Democrat, who campaigned for segregation. He was Governor of Alabama. Wallace achieved four gubernatorial terms across three decades, totalling 16 years in office. Wallace opposed desegregation and supported the policies of "Jim Crow" during the Civil Rights Movement, declaring in his 1963 inaugural address that he stood for "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever". He ran in the 1972 Democratic presidential primaries, once again campaigning for segregation. His campaign effectively ended when he was shot in Maryland by Arthur Bremer, and Wallace remained paralyzed below the waist for the rest of his life. In the late 1970s, Wallace announced that he became a born-again Christian and moderated his views on race, renouncing his past support for segregation.

See link.

 

[Northern Light]

In respect of the discussion of the terrorist plot in Michigan; and the risks of Civil War.

I offer the following:

There is nothing ok about what the people involved were planning.........but I have very little faith they could have or would have pulled it off ....(I mean they managed to have an undercover informant to their first serious meeting.......)

The Admiral is right to be cynical about whether these folks had the stuff to pull anything like this off; we've seen this before in Canada; including where accused were exonerated because they were considered not capable of pulling off an attack but for the intervention of law enforcement (undercover) facilitating same

Notwithstanding the above............I do have real concerns about the state of affairs in the U.S. as election day approaches.

It doesn't take a lot of competent terrorists to create real problems; nor does it take a lot of civil disobedience or criminal behavior to cause headaches beyond the ability of government to easily cope.

A poster over at SSP wrote this:

For those that are poll impaired or those that just suffer from TDS severely I have extremely bad new for you guys.
https://twitter.com/SunshineSt8Sam/s...20039432007680
I myself took off Monday until Thursday of the first week in November just to enjoy drinking all of the liberal tears.

****

The above could be written off as so much drivel....................BUT the same poster later wrote this in the same post:

I fear nothing.
A civil war is nothing worse than the worst of the lockdowns of Covid. More will likely die but in the end it will be a just cause just like when the democrat's were defeated trying to keep chattel slavery alive and will into the 20th century

I'm not even going to copy/paste the rest.......offensive hardly describes it.

 

[Johnny Au]

SunshineSt8Sam can't even write properly, even by low Twitter standards.

 

[jayme2016]

I am not sure how comparable our FLQ crisis to what's happening in the US (that's not to say the incident in Michigan will lead to civil war); there is less general/diffuse hyperpolarization in Canadian society at the time, and certainly much less government dysfunction. US is a powderkeg, further inflamed by a chief executive that is willing to endorse radical groups for his own benefit - and that's amidst a period of great economic and social stress in society. And there is a cherry on top - an upcoming, potentially contested election - with scenarios that could increase chaos even further. Nothing can be more destabilizing than a transition of power viewed as illegitimate by a substantial, and heavily armed segment of the population (and worse - if the outgoing power actively promote that view in order to cling to power).

AoD

I think the other side of it is many non whites don't support BLM .

 

[adma]

SunshineSt8Sam can't even write properly, even by low Twitter standards.

Do you think any of these people really care? Consider the vocabulary of the Michigan coup guys. These might well be the dumbest, most inarticulate people *ever* to be in a position to overthrow government--most revolutionaries over time have been able to at least fake it with a well-articulated mission statement. It's like for them, ejucayshun is tyrany. All they want to do is blow things up and be kings of the castle, and they think they'll be able to get away with it because this is all akin to LARPing and they think they're safely behind a control panel.

Oh, and re those RCP numbers: remember that polling weighting and methodology in 2020 *might* have been adjusted in order to account for 2016 oversights. (Which is why pollsters and pundits are more guarded about Biden in general than they were about Hillary in 2016)