[reaperexpress]

Why is this seriously now being said??

My recollection says Ottawa deliberately got rid of that from their plans by converting it into a pedestrian bridge.

Wasn't the U-shaped crossing at Bayview (Line 2) deliberately built to prevent this?

I cycled across the bridge yesterday and noticed that the rails are still there, they just built a new wooden deck on top of the tracks. The conversion project also included structural upgrades to enable rail service to be restored in the future.

The U-shaped extension of Bayview station does block a rail extension but's it's not an essential element of the station. If the line is extended across the bridge, they could just remove that walkway. If the line continues northbound, there would no longer be a need to quickly get between the west side (future southbound) and east side (future northbound) Trillium line platforms. In the unlikely event someone does need to get between the platforms they can still go upstairs and cross the tracks via the Confederation Line platform.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I don't think there is any plan to use the second platform regularly; it's a backup in case of platform or track problems. Though I do wonder they might use it for an extra train once the hockey arena is built, if they can figure out a way to insert that into the ballet that is scheduling line 2.

 

[reaperexpress]

I don't think there is any plan to use the second platform regularly; it's a backup in case of platform or track problems. Though I do wonder they might use it for an extra train once the hockey arena is built, if they can figure out a way to insert that into the ballet that is scheduling line 2.

Adding trains into the line 2 schedule is physically impossible due to the locations and lengths of the single-track segments, but storing a train on the second platform could be useful as a spare during peaks (when a cancelled trip would have extra-severe consequences).

In the further future the second platform would be useful if they extend Line 4 to Bayview. One platform could be used for Line 2 and the other platform used for Line 4. The side platform setup is unfortunate for a terminus but at least the people heading beyond South Keys would know in advance which platform to head to.

The 2025 Transportation Master Plan includes a (remarkably affordable) project to improve headways to 10 minutes, which could potentially be used to extend Line 4 to Bayview (every 20 minutes). This project would also cut a minute off the travel time by eliminating the waits that currently occur at the Walkley siding.

A more ambitious project could add a few more double-track segments to increase capacity to 8 trains per hour per direction, enabling Lines 2 and 4 to both run every 15 minutes to Bayview:

Full double-tracking was added to the Transportation Master Plan in the changes adopted at council yesterday, though it's included in the very long term (beyond 2046).

I assume the distant timeline is because the project includes adding a second Dow's Lake tunnel and Rideau Canal bridge, which would make the project incredibly expensive and destroy it's cost-benefit ratio. The smaller scope I proposed above avoids the need for either of those, drastically reducing project cost while still maintaining most of the benefits.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I like your map. I think I proposed the same scheme somewhere a few months ago but without so much competence I don't completely agree that an extra hockey train is impossible. It would be disruptive and could likely only be done once per game, but holding northbound trains late evening to allow a southbound convoy would not be a service disaster. This week they are already debuting 24 minute evening headways due to equipment installation.

 

[sche]

Adding trains into the line 2 schedule is physically impossible due to the locations and lengths of the single-track segments, but storing a train on the second platform could be useful as a spare during peaks (when a cancelled trip would have extra-severe consequences).

In the further future the second platform would be useful if they extend Line 4 to Bayview. One platform could be used for Line 2 and the other platform used for Line 4. The side platform setup is unfortunate for a terminus but at least the people heading beyond South Keys would know in advance which platform to head to.

The 2025 Transportation Master Plan includes a (remarkably affordable) project to improve headways to 10 minutes, which could potentially be used to extend Line 4 to Bayview (every 20 minutes). This project would also cut a minute off the travel time by eliminating the waits that currently occur at the Walkley siding.
View attachment 668701

A more ambitious project could add a few more double-track segments to increase capacity to 8 trains per hour per direction, enabling Lines 2 and 4 to both run every 15 minutes to Bayview:
View attachment 668698

Full double-tracking was added to the Transportation Master Plan in the changes adopted at council yesterday, though it's included in the very long term (beyond 2046).
View attachment 668700
I assume the distant timeline is because the project includes adding a second Dow's Lake tunnel and Rideau Canal bridge, which would make the project incredibly expensive and destroy its cost-benefit ratio. The smaller scope I proposed above avoids the need for either of those, drastically reducing project cost while still maintaining most of the benefits.

That’s crazy - I was under the impression that the the Stage 2 project was already supposed to achieve the max possible frequency without double tracking the tunnel. It’s frankly insane that this $80M of additional track wasn’t completed then…

 

[CapitalSeven]

Not even close. They did the minimum to stabilize the 12 minute headway. They could get to 10 minutes with Walkley doubled, which is not that difficult since the area for the second track and platform was leveled and it could mostly be built without shutting down the system. 7.5 minutes is a good goal, and 6 minutes could likely be done with everything but the tunnel, though I suspect ATC would be required to do that safely.

 

[reaperexpress]

Not even close. They did the minimum to stabilize the 12 minute headway. They could get to 10 minutes with Walkley doubled, which is not that difficult since the area for the second track and platform was leveled and it could mostly be built without shutting down the system. 7.5 minutes is a good goal, and 6 minutes could likely be done with everything but the tunnel, though I suspect ATC would be required to do that safely.

I'm not sure 6 minutes is possible in practice. The travel time from Carleton Station to Dow's Lake station is just under 3 minutes, so the minimum theoretical headway is 6 minutes. But that provides no margin of error so in practice it would be unwise to schedule headways less than about 7.5 min. We could probably save a bit of time using electrification and resolving the 25 km/h speed restrictions at platforms but I don't think we would get the travel time low enough to enable 6 min headways.

 

[reaperexpress]

That’s crazy - I was under the impression that the the Stage 2 project was already supposed to achieve the max possible frequency without double tracking the tunnel. It’s frankly insane that this $80M of additional track wasn’t completed then…

Adding to @CapitalSeven 's point :
The original line ran every 15 minutes with 2 trains (passing at Carleton). The second generation system doubled the fleet to 4 in service and the original idea was to run every 7.5 minutes, later scaled back to 10 minutes. But the tiny sidings made the line so much slower that the 4 trains were only able to run a 12-minute headway in practice.

 

[dowlingm]

Free travel gone for 11/12 year olds, all youths to be charged adult fares

OC Transpo scrapping youth passes on Sept. 1, charging 11-19 year-olds the same fare as adults

It will soon be the end of the road for OC Transpo’s youth pass, as the City of Ottawa gets set to scrap the discounted pass for 13- to 19-year-olds at the end of August.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[nfitz]

Free travel gone for 11/12 year olds, all youths to be charged adult fares

OC Transpo scrapping youth passes on Sept. 1, charging 11-19 year-olds the same fare as adults

It will soon be the end of the road for OC Transpo’s youth pass, as the City of Ottawa gets set to scrap the discounted pass for 13- to 19-year-olds at the end of August.

www.ctvnews.ca

How do they define that using Presto? If you set-up for child on GO or another agency, how would it be different in Ottawa?

 

[smallspy]

How do they define that using Presto? If you set-up for child on GO or another agency, how would it be different in Ottawa?

It's not.

The system on each vehicle or faregate uses a table to figure out which fare to charge the card. They are simply removing the "youth" column in the table. The cards themselves and the data they contain see no changes.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

The system on each vehicle or faregate uses a table to figure out which fare to charge the card. They are simply removing the "youth" column in the table. The cards themselves and the data they contain see no changes.

I am puzzled then, if I have a 12-year old and a 10-year old both with child cards, that currently charge child fares correctly on each system (like TTC, YRT, and GO). Then how does it know to charge different fares in Ottawa?

 

[smallspy]

I am puzzled then, if I have a 12-year old and a 10-year old both with child cards, that currently charge child fares correctly on each system (like TTC, YRT, and GO). Then how does it know to charge different fares in Ottawa?

All the devices in Ottawa use an "Ottawa" fare table. Just like the TTC's devices use a "Toronto" table, and YRT's use a "York Region" table.

The card is agnostic to the device it is being tapped upon, it just gives the device certain pieces of info that it needs in order to determine where on the table it should be looking.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

All the devices in Ottawa use an "Ottawa" fare table. Just like the TTC's devices use a "Toronto" table, and YRT's use a "York Region" table.

The card is agnostic to the device it is being tapped upon, it just gives the device certain pieces of info that it needs in order to determine where on the table it should be looking.

But you are limited to the categories that are put on the card. If GO (or TTC) puts child on a card, it applies to all agencies (and I've seen that for years ... well I haven't checked a child on UP ...).

So what does the Ottawa system do when it encounters a card that's a 12-year old child compared to a 10-year old child? The age isn't on the card. It might (or might not) be buried deep in the back office somewhere, but not at the device.

 

[jys]

But you are limited to the categories that are put on the card. If GO (or TTC) puts child on a card, it applies to all agencies (and I've seen that for years ... well I haven't checked a child on UP ...).

So what does the Ottawa system do when it encounters a card that's a 12-year old child compared to a 10-year old child? The age isn't on the card. It might (or might not) be buried deep in the back office somewhere, but not at the device.

I believe Presto cards require a birthday to be set for concession fares.