[gibsonm]

I'll ask this a second time, please cite the rights and freedoms in the charter that are being violated.

The majority support mandates, mandates work to increase vaccination rates, vaccines dramatically reduce death and severity and YET while we're still in the midst of a wave, with our second highest daily death toll to date just yesterday, a social democratic government should abandon this strategy because a small minority have decided they have an inalienable right to keep a certain job because con-artists and grifters told them so.

Go ahead and impose all restrictions that you think you need to protect yourself on yourself. No need to impose this blunt, blanket instrument on everyone. For how long? What do you expect will change after our near-universal vaccination? It’s dysfunctional.

 

[gibsonm]

LMAO, have words lost all meaning? Do you even know what a totalitarian state is?

I lived in one many years ago. Our conditions feel similar.

 

[APTA-2048]

We just had a legitimately democratic election about 4 months ago - there is nothing totalitarian about it. Also you seem to have forgotten that we are a Federated state - and there are provinces with parties in power that have fundamentally different ideological priorities than Ottawa (e.g. Ontario, Alberta and Saskatchewan, for example) and even they chose to implement restrictions that are anathema to their natural inclinations - precisely because the alternative is the risk of a healthcare system collapse.

What are the "many ways" for the vulnerable - such as someone who is in need of cancer treatment and immunocompromised - to protect themselves when surgeries and whatnot gets bumped because the hospitals are swamped (and I might add, in no small part due to people who refuse to protect themselves in the name of "rights"?)

AoD

It's funny. The unvaccinated are actually part of the most vulnerable.

Maybe they need to be isolated and restricted like they say we can do to what they perceive as the most vulnerable.

Somehow I doubt this person would be in favour of that though.

 

[gibsonm]

We just had a legitimately democratic election about 4 months ago - there is nothing totalitarian about it. Also you seem to have forgotten that we are a Federated state - and there are provinces with parties in power that have fundamentally different ideological priorities than Ottawa (e.g. Ontario, Alberta and Saskatchewan, for example) and even they chose to implement restrictions that are anathema to their natural inclinations - precisely because the alternative is the risk of a healthcare system collapse.

What are the "many ways" for the vulnerable - such as someone who is in need of cancer treatment and immunocompromised - to protect themselves when surgeries and whatnot gets bumped because the hospitals are swamped (and I might add, in no small part due to people who refuse to protect themselves in the name of "rights"?)

AoD

Almost all of us are jabbed. I’m also boosted. Now what? We mask up daily and shutter businesses at will indefinitely? How about the papers we need to access trains and basic freedoms? Do we need those forever to keep people “safe”?

 

[gibsonm]

It's funny. The unvaccinated are actually part of the most vulnerable.

Maybe they need to be isolated and restricted like they say we can do to what they perceive as the most vulnerable.

Somehow I doubt this person would be in favour of that though.

No that’s a fascist move. If people want to take that risk it’s their prerogative. Every health profile is different. A free country allows personal discretion, including over healthcare. It’s a small minority. If our healthcare system can’t handle it, maybe it’s a bit too Soviet and needs revamping.

 

[zang]

Go ahead and impose all restrictions that you think you need to protect yourself on yourself. No need to impose this blunt, blanket instrument on everyone. For how long? What do you expect will change after our near-universal vaccination? It’s dysfunctional.

So, okay, instead of waiting for this wave to die, we just drop all restrictions now, leading to the inevitable collapse of the hospital system. Great idea!

 

[APTA-2048]

No that’s a fascist move. If people want to take that risk it’s their prerogative. Every health profile is different. A free country allows personal discretion, including over healthcare. It’s a small minority. If our healthcare system can’t handle it, maybe it’s a bit too Soviet and needs revamping.

Jesus Christ. How the hell is healthcare "too Soviet"?

Then what exactly are the tools you mentioned the vulnerable have to protect themselves?

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's funny. The unvaccinated are actually part of the most vulnerable.

The faster Darwin clears out the willfully unvaccinated the better. It's just unfortunate that many of those who can't be vaccinated will be dragged down with them.

 

[zang]

No that’s a fascist move. If people want to take that risk it’s their prerogative. Every health profile is different. A free country allows personal discretion, including over healthcare. It’s a small minority. If our healthcare system can’t handle it, maybe it’s a bit too Soviet and needs revamping.

If I want to smoke in a public indoor place, I should be allowed to; few people ever die of second-hand smoke. Eff everyone else.

 

[gibsonm]

If I want to smoke in a public indoor place, I should be allowed to; few people ever die of second-hand smoke. Eff everyone else.

There’s a big difference between indoor smoking bans and widespread restrictions and lockdowns.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The faster Darwin clears out the willfully unvaccinated the better. It's just unfortunate that many of those who can't be vaccinated will be dragged down with them.

The system doesn't make that distinction - it doesn't deny care to those who chose not to vaccinate. In fact when push comes to shove and lifesaving care need to be triaged, the determination will be made on the basis of survivability/survival years - someone who have done all they could and then some to protect themselves could get bumped by someone who willfully chose not to protect themselves and engage in all manners of unwise activities.

AoD

 

[Richard White]

GUYS!!!

Can not go down this rabbit hole of attacking each other and our opinions. I, and I am sure others are not interested in it.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

There are mandates for transportation and federal employees. A dysfunctional healthcare system doesn’t excuse radical government overreach. Anyway, I’m sure that many of the posters on here are either retired or enjoy enough pandemic privilege to insulate themselves from the hardships most workers face. Young people are taking restrictions particularly hard. Seems selfish of the Boomers, who can stay home, mask up, triple vax, and order from Amazon or Grocery Gateway.

Remember how this discussion started - the complaints about crossing the border to Florida. That doesn't sound like "hardships most workers face". Stop equating inconveniences to actual hardship where actual workers who didn't have the luxury to work from home, that is exposed to potential infections, that don't have enough money to feed themselves/family, much less buy PPE; that actually lost their job - to people who can't cross the border for recreational purposes without providing a few extra forms and test results. That's not hardship, that's privilege speaking and trying to tack itself on actual hardship to make a case of "poor me".

AoD

 

[zang]

The faster Darwin clears out the willfully unvaccinated the better. It's just unfortunate that many of those who can't be vaccinated will be dragged down with them.

Or just those needing prompt healthcare.

My father-in-law is lucky. He's a three-time cancer survivor, but not without its pound of flesh. His first bout with soft-palate cancer was in his 30s. Aggressive radiation therapy left him requiring an obturator, losing all his teeth, his lymph nodes and some of the muscle in his neck, and his thyroid. A recurrence of the cancer a few years later meant even more treatment, which ultimately led to his epiglottis being rendered completely useless. He's been on a feeding tube since.

By all means, he's a fully active and (otherwise) healthy man. You wouldn't know any of this had happened to him.

Then this past November, a large tumour in his tongue was discovered. In short, a cancer that—despite regular screenings—had been found nearly too late required a major glossectomy. The original surgery date was already delayed by the backlog of other surgeries from previous waves, but his oncologist pushed hard to have his surgery bumped up. He knew there'd be a hit on hospitals due to government history of failure to act quickly with restrictions. Had they waited until his original date, Omicron would've been in full swing, and it's very likely he'd have had to wait even longer. Likely to the point where this surgery wouldn't make a difference anyway.

Cancer still got its pound of flesh this time. Social ignorance would've taken the rest.

Unfortunately, not everyone is so lucky these days. And those whose selfishness and ignorance are leading to responsible people dying deserve to be shamed to the end of their days.

 

[picard102]

No that’s a fascist move.

It's not. Stop using words you don't understand. Nothing has happened that is totalitarian or fascist.