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Adjei said:
Why does this square still feel underwhelming after all the money spent ?
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Individually each of the features is great. It feels like a disjointed series of nice pocket parks rather than a grand cohesive vision. The elevated walkways have some role in this but I think they are fairly innocuous and one of the more interesting parts.

Also, the Bay & Queen Street frontage is also a substantial culprit IMHO. It looks terrible, is poorly kept and is cluttered with vendors which creates some chaos, but not the pleasant kind of urban chaos and vitality I think most people like
 
mrxbombastic said:
Individually each of the features is great. It feels like a disjointed series of nice pocket parks rather than a grand cohesive vision. The elevated walkways have some role in this but I think they are fairly innocuous and one of the more interesting parts.

Also, the Bay & Queen Street frontage is also a substantial culprit IMHO. It looks terrible, is poorly kept and is cluttered with vendors which creates some chaos, but not the pleasant kind of urban chaos and vitality I think most people like
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On point, we've discussed here before that there is room to improve the experience on Queen and at the Bay corner.

Removing the south side of Queen garage entrance is one key and widening and beautifying the south side sidewalk. Another is removing the elevated walk way over Queen.

There is certainly a need to re-order/re-think the landscape/streetscape on the north side of Queen as well. This could be done by making the food truck locations 'permanent', and thus allowing streetscape bump outs periodically to add a sense of order to the chaos. But also it can allow for thoughtful add-ons like roll-out canopies off the trucks, even coordinating colours to create a more vibrant flavour.

Then integrating more cafe-style seating along that frontage.

The slip lane at Queen/Bay simply has to go.
 
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Was shooting with a European director at City Hall a few years ago and he made this really funny comment.

He goes, "Yeah, Toronto is so interesting. You have these really beautiful almost European streets and neighbourhoods and pockets and then you also have these areas that feel almost post-Soviet Bloc in their starkness and harshness."

Nathan Phillilps Square and the area surrounding it is totally and example of the latter.

We keep trying to soften brutalist architecture in this city. I think we just let it stand and stop adding things to it which just messes it up even more. I think we need to return the square to its 1960s pure form and leave it alone. It's all these little add ons here and there that wreck it.
 
To continue from NL's suggestions, I think the elevated walkways could easily be turned into a mini highline with generous greenery and gardens throughout.

To take it a step further--and this idea just popped into my head--I could see a linear history of Toronto woven into the walkway, commencing at the peace garden with the city's establishment, then winding through the decades along the three sides of the square, and concluding with the present day where the walkway lets onto the podium green roof. (Which allows plenty of space for the display of any future events). Ideally, such an installation could be done in collaboration with the Toronto Museum which will (someday, fingers crossed) be right across the street.

If anything, the square needs more attractions, not fewer, both to bring more visitors into the square and make them stay longer than it takes for an Instagram shot at the Toronto sign.
 
Unfortunately the raised walkway is neither wide or deep enough to accommodate plantings in any substantial or meaningful way while leaving room for a path for accessibility - it would require massive expansion or reinforcement. They could do some kind of wall mounted planting treatments w. cascading plants to disguise the walls, but I don't know if that would be a wise use of funds.

Truthfully I think it should be removed.... The heavy concrete railings create an oppressive ring of enclosure around the square. They should definitely leave the ramped walkway that leads up to city hall, but the perimeter path and the bridge that connects to the Sheraton should all be demolished.
 
DavidCapizzano said:
Unfortunately the raised walkway is neither wide or deep enough to accommodate plantings in any substantial or meaningful way while leaving room for a path for accessibility - it would require massive expansion or reinforcement.
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There are other feasible options, the concrete 'walls' weigh a lot, if removed, they could be replaced with black, industrial looking railings, and you could design those fairly easily to hold cascading plants, it should fall within the weight allowance of the columns/piers, though I'd need to see the plans, and consult an engineer to be sure.

DavidCapizzano said:
They could do some kind of wall mounted planting treatments w. cascading plants to disguise the walls, but I don't know if that would be a wise use of funds.
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I'm inclined to agree. I think the focus should be more on the things I mentioned above, which, except for removing the south side parking entrance can be done relatively cheaply and straight forwardly at a price the City could finance non-controversially.

Removing the parking entrance is a bit more involved.

It's not as simple as just 'covering' it, you want to streetscape over the top of it. Either a lower, reinforced ceiling would have to be built, or the entrance area back filled (and anything underneath it would have to be removed/hold the weight) .

DavidCapizzano said:
Truthfully I think it should be removed.... The heavy concrete railings create an oppressive ring of enclosure around the square. They should definitely leave the ramped walkway that leads up to city hall, but the perimeter path and the bridge that connects to the Sheraton should all be demolished.
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I'm open on the point, but removing the bridge over Queen is a no brainer, and the hotel can pay for it.......... (they want their lease on City land reupped....... I see a condition coming)
 
hawc said:
The Garden is 'healing' something from 75 years ago?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No one is going to feel 'healed' by any of this.
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You may want to read this...or even just go and sit there for a while.

New Indigenous spirit garden opens outside Toronto city hall​

Elders say they hope space will deepen understanding of Indigenous culture and history​


A new Indigenous spirit garden opened in Toronto on Monday, the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, to honour residential school survivors.

City officials say the garden is Toronto's response in part to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's Call to Action 82, which calls for governments to install a residential schools monument in each capital city to honour survivors and all the children who did not come home.

Andrew Wesley, a member of the Fort Albany First Nation and residential school survivor, said visitors to the garden can learn not only about the abuse suffered by residential school survivors and intergenerational trauma, but also about the culture and history of Indigenous peoples who live in Toronto and its surrounding area.

SEE: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...ial-school-survivors-cultural-space-1.7337072
 
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