[kpad]

They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

From the City of Toronto website:

Q: When will the next reassessment occur?

A: The next province-wide property reassessment will occur in 2008. Until that time, property assessment values for most Toronto properties will be those as of January 1, 2005. Some properties may have experienced changes to their value as a result of new construction or other data changes such as ownership or school support. In these cases, owners received an updated Property Assessment Notice from the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation (MPAC). Visit the MPAC website for further information.

Q: I recently received a Supplementary/Omitted Assessment Notice from the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation (MPAC). What is it and what happens next?

A: Supplementary Property Assessment Notices are issued by MPAC when there has been a change to a property during the current taxation year due to a change in property classification, an addition, renovation or new construction.

Omitted Property Assessment Notices are issued when the current value assessment for an improvement (e.g., a new home or addition) was not previously recorded on the annual assessment roll. An Omitted Assessment Notice may apply to the current year and, if applicable, for any part or all of the previous two years.

 

[prometheus the supremo]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

Prometheus: Condo fees are payable to the condo corporation, not the city, and cover the operating costs of the condo itself. They are entirely separate from municipal taxes.

i know about that. what i was saying was it's like a tax payable to the condo government.

what are condo fees like?

 

[andreapalladio]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

It depends on how many bells and whistles the building has - huge gyms and pools and hot tubs and saunas cost a lot to maintain, so builiding with that sort of amenities have higher fees.

 

[sdoody]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

I had the same deal ($30,000 original assessment) for my condo in 2005 and about half of 2006, which made me pretty happy until (in mid 2006) they reassessed me for the full value for the entire time that I then had to pay.

So basically, don't go spending your 'extra' money.

 

[building babel]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

Given that property taxes are often about the same for a condo as for a house that sits on a typically sized lot with a front and back garden, one hopes that the $30,000 assessment isn't just for the proportionate share of the "land value" portion of the bill as has been suggested. Otherwise, what does that say about the assessed value of the actual unit itself?

 

[Observer Walt]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

Prometheus: Condo fees vary according to the amenities provided, as already mentioned. Another variable is whether utilities expense is included in the fee (usually it is for older buildings, but those being constructed now will have individually metered electricity which will be billed outside the condo fee). A very rough guideline is about 38 to 43 cents per square foot per month, assuming that you have not been stuck with a dreaded "special assessment" to cover major repairs.

Kpad: Thanks for the quote from the City of Toronto website. I hadn't thought to look there. I checked the MPAC website even though I knew the info which can be obtained there is usually skimpy! :\

Babel: All assessments are theoretically based on current market value. Having seen many assessments I'm not sure I'd agree with your statement that a typical condo assessment is similar to those for detached houses, but having said that, there are certainly many discrepancies out there, particularly in older neighbourhoods. Hopefully they are now being addressed, following the recent harsh criticisms of the assessment system from the Ombudsman.

My guess that the $30,000 represented the land value component for a condo apartment is based on several recent sales of vacant condo sites, mainly in the central part of the city. I follow these pretty closely for work reasons. To most people this is admittedly pretty arcane stuff, but the land component of a condo apartment is proportionately far less than that for "land oriented" development including a detached house.

 

[building babel]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

Observer: I've noticed that some condos of about 1,000 square feet are selling for roughly what my 1,000 square foot semi-detached house would sell for, and their property taxes are also about the same ( according to the sales listings ). Yet condos have no real "land" to speak of, unlike a house. The replacement cost for rebuilding my house, on my insurance policy, is quite a lot less than what the house would sell for, and I would imagine that the land value plays a greater part in the total assessed value of a house than the land value would be in the assessed value of a condo selling for the equivalent price.

Hence, I think that if kpad's $30,000 is just for the "land" portion of his condo property tax he's probably paying a lot more for the "condo" part of his property tax than a homeowner in a detached house of equivalent value is paying for the structure he lives in.

 

[Observer Walt]

Re: They are indeed kidding!

^ Quite true; the land component of a detached house is many times $30,000, at least for anything within a normal commute from Toronto. Yet it's typical for a condo apartment, including many in prime downtown locations, hence the funny-looking assessment notices sent to kpad and others. Condo dwellers will indeed pay more in their taxes for the "built" component than the land component, as compared to those in detached or semi-detached houses. It's simply a function of land economics. However it is a bit of an arcane point, as the assessed value incorporates both land and structural elements, and is not broken out.

In case anyone finds this unsettling: theoretically at least, if a detached house and a condo apartment sell at the same amount (have equivalent market values), they should be assessed at the same amounts and hence pay taxes at the same amounts.

 

[building babel]

Re: They are kidding! Save for those tax bills, kiddies!

They pay more, yet they get less: in a condo you're part of a "collective", with less freedom of choice over how you use your own space ( beware the Coloured Window Covering Police! ). Hardly seems fair.