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Yea, expresserizing the line and reclassifying it as an uptown rapid transit line, and even replace the Finch LRT in the west too.

Also not feel the need to create a station at every intersecting bus route, make those routes link to the express stop.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I find it amazing no one has brought up an above ground subway to solve this.
Click to expand...

I think this idea is bad. If they had the forethought to have pushed that Spadina subway over to another major north south street (Dufferin) where it intersects all those streets going west/east (like Yonge subway does), it would have been much better. The parking at Wilson station is disappearing, and if Yorkdale decides to take back that parking lot now where TTC commuters park, then the perhaps the reasoning for having the line run in the middle of no where does away. (Though they repeated this same mistake by allowing that Spadina extension). Why would anyone want to turn Sheppard into an expressway?
 
rbt said:
Nope. Not LRT. It's street-safe subway cars. A little wider than Montreal's subway cars but with pantographs, mirrors, and something over the wheels :)
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Your definition of a "street-safe subway" is not even close to Montreal Metro's speed
 
It should be extended on both ends to act as an Uptown commuter rail service, and not have a stop at every intersecting bus route. Diverge from Sheppard at times as well, and in the west it could replace the Finch West LRT.
 
Solid Snake said:
Your definition of a "street-safe subway" is not even close to Montreal Metro's speed
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I'm not sure I get "street-safe subway". The big difference between heavy rail and light rail is the weight of the vehicles - the problem being heavy rail takes a lot longer to stop so they can't deal with regular traffic lights and cars or jaywalkers cutting in front of them. It's just not reasonable to have a heavy rail vehicle on a public road at any speed that would make it efficient for rapid transit. In order make it safe and reasonably fast you would need to fence off the line, eliminate all but the most major crossing points, and have gates and lights at all the remaining crossing points. That would seriously screw up traffic in that area and would look like crap which has a big impact on development potential along the street.

Light rail works because it is at the limit of what can safely be used on a public right-of-way. They can stop for traffic lights and cars or pedestrians that cross in front of them. If it was safe to make light rail vehicles bigger/heavier they would.
 
howl said:
I'm not sure I get "street-safe subway". The big difference between heavy rail and light rail is the weight of the vehicles - the problem being heavy rail takes a lot longer to stop so they can't deal with regular traffic lights and cars or jaywalkers cutting in front of them. It's just not reasonable to have a heavy rail vehicle on a public road at any speed that would make it efficient for rapid transit. In order make it safe and reasonably fast you would need to fence off the line, eliminate all but the most major crossing points, and have gates and lights at all the remaining crossing points. That would seriously screw up traffic in that area and would look like crap which has a big impact on development potential along the street.

Light rail works because it is at the limit of what can safely be used on a public right-of-way. They can stop for traffic lights and cars or pedestrians that cross in front of them. If it was safe to make light rail vehicles bigger/heavier they would.
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TTC Subway cars = 33,095 kg / 23m long = 1440 kg/m
TTC New Streetcar = 48,200 kg / 30.2m long = 1600 kg/m

The Heavy Rail subway cars are actually lighter than the Streetcars (From what I gather, I think these Streetcars are a minor modification of the new LRT's and are essentially the same weight - Flexity Outlook vs. Flexity Freedom).
LRT needs to be designed heavier to withstand collision loading since they operate in mixed traffic.

The "Light" in LRT means they can carry a light load of passengers, while "Heavy" rail can carry a heavy load of passengers (not fat people, but many more people per hour).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-series_(Toronto_subway_car)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Outlook_(Toronto_streetcar)
 
BurlOak said:
The "Light" in LRT means they can carry a light load of passengers, while "Heavy" rail can carry a heavy load of passengers (not fat people, but many more people per hour).
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The more I see these definitions, the more I prefer the way Africa defines them. Capacity isn't really indicated by the LRT/HRT designation and hasn't since LRTs started coming in trains rather than a single tram + trailer (were Witt's ever made into multi-car trains?).

Heck, even buses can be built to have huge capacity (2 articulations) and may soon be turned into air-coupled trains on a regular basis. That is, no physical coupling but computer control programmed to follow at a fixed short distance (50cm) with a single driver so they operate similarly to a train. South American BRT on steroids; it's how some cities are considering boosting BRT capacity without rebuilding lines.


Anyway, Africa generally defines LRT as carrying people and HRT as carrying freight. Gravel, oil, dry goods, etc. are heavy; people are comparatively light. Any other definition of the LRT/HRT is pretty meaningless as you can't make actual assumptions based on it, even though they may be implied.
 
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BurlOak said:
TTC Subway cars = 33,095 kg / 23m long = 1440 kg/m
TTC New Streetcar = 48,200 kg / 30.2m long = 1600 kg/m

The Heavy Rail subway cars are actually lighter than the Streetcars (From what I gather, I think these Streetcars are a minor modification of the new LRT's and are essentially the same weight - Flexity Outlook vs. Flexity Freedom).
LRT needs to be designed heavier to withstand collision loading since they operate in mixed traffic.

The "Light" in LRT means they can carry a light load of passengers, while "Heavy" rail can carry a heavy load of passengers (not fat people, but many more people per hour).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-series_(Toronto_subway_car)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Outlook_(Toronto_streetcar)
Click to expand...

Humm, learned something new today,
 
BurlOak said:
TTC Subway cars = 33,095 kg / 23m long = 1440 kg/m
TTC New Streetcar = 48,200 kg / 30.2m long = 1600 kg/m

The Heavy Rail subway cars are actually lighter than the Streetcars (From what I gather, I think these Streetcars are a minor modification of the new LRT's and are essentially the same weight - Flexity Outlook vs. Flexity Freedom).
LRT needs to be designed heavier to withstand collision loading since they operate in mixed traffic.

The "Light" in LRT means they can carry a light load of passengers, while "Heavy" rail can carry a heavy load of passengers (not fat people, but many more people per hour).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-series_(Toronto_subway_car)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Outlook_(Toronto_streetcar)
Click to expand...

Not trying to join this debate (not qualified) just looking for info...is that one subway car? If, so does anyone run one subway car like they can/would/do one of the new TTC Streetcars? It would only take two subway cars together to make the combined vehicle much heavier.
 
TOareaFan said:
Not trying to join this debate (not qualified) just looking for info...is that one subway car?
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With a length of only 23 meters, that definitely is one subway car. Toronto subway train lengths are about 140 meters.

If, so does anyone run one subway car like they can/would/do one of the new TTC Streetcars?
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I've never heard of a single subway (heavy rail) car being used in transit operations. If someone wanted that, they'd probably just use a single light rail vehicle. We'll be doing this on our Finch and Sheppard LRT lines.

And single subway car operatons wouldn't be possible with the TTC's rolling stock. Our Toronto Rockets are permanently coupled into six car sets. Our T1s are permanently coupled into two car sets. The cars cannot work individually.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
With a length of only 23 meters, that definitely is one subway car. Toronto subway train lengths are about 140 meters.



I've never heard of a single subway (heavy rail) car being used in transit operations. If someone wanted that, they'd probably just use a single light rail car. We'll be doing this on our Finch and Sheppard LRT lines.

And single subway car operatons wouldn't be possible with the TTC's rolling stock. Our Toronto Rockets are permanently coupled into six car sets. Our T1s are permanently coupled into two car sets. The cars cannot work individually.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

So a typical new subway consist (is that the right word?) would weigh almost 200,000 kg while a typical new streetcar would weigh 48k?
 
rbt said:
The more I see these definitions, the more I prefer the way Africa defines them.
Click to expand...

I find "Light Rail Transit", "Heavy Rail Transit" and "Rapid Transit" to be incredibly misleading names. "Intermediate Capacity Mass Transit", "High Capacity Mass Transit" and "Protected Mass Transit" would be more accurate names.
 
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