[Northern Light]

Ok, the blow-out surprise in the presentation is this.......

Mx is planning an LRT on Neilson that will end (north terminus) at this development; they're at 5% design........ (side note, one the panel members is actually working on the LRT design and its apparently going to hit 10% design by year end)

So this is the idea, presumably of the Eglinton East and or Sheppard East LRT connecting to UTSC I'm assuming; earlier iterations would have shown a routing along Sheppard. I'm musing in my head though, about whether such an LRT needs a connection to the new Sheppard/McCowan SSE Station first; and also whether any routing to UTSC shouldn't follow Ellesmere such that it can serve Scarborough Centenary Hospital.

****

Panel had lots of critiques.

- Lack of overall design ethos

- Lack of green space network

- Too car oriented.

- Main street retail proposal is too wide at 23M, Queen West is 18M wide, it shouldn't be wider than that.

- Concern over retail viability

- General feeling on too much density. Density described as unrealistic.

- Courtyards are enclosed

- Mews/lanes are too narrow to support trees.

- One panel member suggested removing the major streets flanking the park, and instead build out the streets internal to the residential, while having the park meet the residential.

- Consensus as defined by chair, many elements here underdeveloped and ill considered.

Vote: Unanimous non-support 9-0

 

[HousingNowTO]

Community Town Hall: Malvern Mall Development
Wed Sep 20th
6:30pm - 8:30pm

Malvern Recreation Centre
30 Sewells Rd
Scarborough, ON
M1B 3G5


LINK - https://tockify.com/jamaalmyers/detail/6/1695249000000

 

[boldpreza]

So I have a few questions about this. Hopefully some more knowledgeable posters can assist. Also have there been any updates since this initial announcement?

1) Given how large the lot is, why are we not getting more buildings?
2) Given how low density the surrounding area is, why are they putting more townhouses on the site? Especially given that a townhome community was just built on the western edge of the site.
3) If we were to get more buildings, could we not get more units with lower floor counts? Admittedly 39 storeys isn't a monster but it's so much more than what is already there.
4) Is any part of the mall salvageable as a community hub/Food hall idea?
5) What part of this causes it to take 20 years? Is there a way to expedite this build out?

 

[Northern Light]

So I have a few questions about this. Hopefully some more knowledgeable posters can assist.

I shall endeavor.

Also have there been any updates since this initial announcement?

Not that I'm aware of...........there are no new documents uploaded, and there is no indication of any appeal to the OLT.

1) Given how large the lot is, why are we not getting more buildings?

This is a very dense proposal, there are lots of towers here. The only space not built on is parkland, or roads. Yes, there are townhomes on one block, and only one, and that's because that's what they are facing on the other side of the street, they are acting as a buffer between the existing townhomes and the greater height of the towers. The midrise is related to buffering the park from intense shadows.

2) Given how low density the surrounding area is, why are they putting more townhouses on the site? Especially given that a townhome community was just built on the western edge of the site.

Answered above.

3) If we were to get more buildings, could we not get more units with lower floor counts? Admittedly 39 storeys isn't a monster but it's so much more than what is already there.

Where are more buildings going? If you read the comments from the Design Review Panel above, you'll see they describe this proposal as unrealistically dense.

4) Is any part of the mall salvageable as a community hub/Food hall idea?

Structurally, sure, economically, that would make no sense. It also wouldn't be great planning. I'm confused that you object to one block of townhomes but want to save a one-storey failed mall?

5) What part of this causes it to take 20 years? Is there a way to expedite this build out?

In theory, you could build it all at once, more or less, though that would obviously eliminate all retail and jobs for the community on-site today.

However, market economics precludes building it out that quickly. Certainly as condos, you would sell one block at a time then move on to the next. If doing rentals, there's more room to build quicker, but this is a large site and that's a lot capital (money) and a lot of risk.

Realistically, if demand were there and if the supporting infrastructure were there, you could see this rollout over 12-15 years. But the market will have ups and downs over that time......

 

[boldpreza]

Thank you for the answers it's much appreciated. Also thank you for pointing out the buffering as I had not considered that.

The thought for more buildings would have been instead of the townhomes, adding more podiums. Additionally the north east corner of the property is not included in the proposal, as it's currently up for sale and likely to be severed. Those were just my initial thoughts.

Saving the mall idea would not have been the whole thing, but only a small portion, preferably the central entryway, as I said so it's a community spot, maybe even the future TAIBU replacement or as a food hall with a park on either side of the entryway.

On that last part, I guess I am just impatient and want to see it done. Though yes I understand market realities and the ups and downs, in particular this exact moment.

 

[Northern Light]

Resubmission here late last week:

Application Details

www.toronto.ca

From the Cover Letter:

From the Arch. Drawings (phase 1)

Overall Site Plan:

Landscape Plan:

No need to flag @Paclo .... he knows. LOL

 

[Paclo]

Read more about the revised master plan and Phase 1 in our front page article:

Malvern Town Centre Redevelopment Reworked in Resubmission | UrbanToronto

Davpart has resubmitted plans to transform Malvern Town Centre in Scarborough into a 13-tower mixed-use community with over 6,800 residential units. The proposal includes new public spaces and significant increases in height and density from the 2022 proposal.

urbantoronto.ca

 

[11th]

It's unlikely the LRT (if built) will be extended north from here, so I would prefer the station to be better integrated.
Public street C and E can be made one-way. LRT can use it to loop around. Station can be on one side of the roadway.

 

[jmi22]

Ridiculous that this density is predicated on the delivery of Transit City's most pathetic runt, the EELRT, which is never happening anyways. Selling condos will be so easy with the promise of a gleeful 2 and a half hour commute with three transfers.

On the contrary, if Ford was serious about the Midtown line proposal, densifying around a station at the Neilson Road overpass would be a great idea. Current Stouffville Line operations suggest a trip from Malvern to Summerhill Stn wouldn't be more than 40 minutes on GO rolling stock.

 

[Thaboss]

Ridiculous that this density is predicated on the delivery of Transit City's most pathetic runt, the EELRT, which is never happening anyways. Selling condos will be so easy with the promise of a gleeful 2 and a half hour commute with three transfers.

On the contrary, if Ford was serious about the Midtown line proposal, densifying around a station at the Neilson Road overpass would be a great idea. Current Stouffville Line operations suggest a trip from Malvern to Summerhill Stn wouldn't be more than 40 minutes on GO rolling stock.

What makes you say that the EELRT won't happen?

 

[jmi22]

What makes you say that the EELRT won't happen?

It has a lot going against it:

1. Metrolinx has continuously indicated it does not value this project and will not spend a dime to protect for its construction. (building out the possibility of through running between the Crosstown and EELRT in the Kennedy Station rebuild by placing the Line 2 track support smack in between them says a lot)

2. There is no serious political champion for the project outside of the screeches coming from City Hall. With Ford set to be premier until the end of the universe and his infamous Etobicoke favoritism, now that Scarbs has 'gotten its subway' good luck convincing him to throw more money at the east end.

3. The only people who want to see this project happen are a few Scarborough councillors, Chow, and city planning for its 'urbanizing affects'. Seeing as the wildly smaller (and much more valuable) Queens Quay East LRT can't find funding to serve the literal gemstone in Toronto's civic investment of the last 30 years (Portlands), I don't think Kingston road fares much better. The furthest this will get municipally is the environmental review and a cooked business case featuring smiley faces as performance indicators, which will then sit on a shelf for the next century.

3. The massive provincial spending of the last decade on infrastructure is coming to a close both because of Ontario reaching its limit on spending and the global recession is about to hit. Amazing projects won't even get funding, never mind the EELRT.

5. It is ultimately a terrible transportation project, created out of a mindless belief that poor people riding streetcars is more equitable than them riding buses regardless of how slow that streetcar will be. The soon to open Finch and Crosstown LRT's (particularly the at grade eastern section) will quickly reveal the terrible operational realities of GTHA LRT, and that service will be a great deal slower than the old express buses on those corridors. Throw a few nasty crashes in the mix, and spending on new LRT will be as politically viable as widening the Gardiner.

If city council was really interested in improving the lives of Scarborough residents, they would stop burning money chasing their dream of turning Neilson Road into Queen Street, and go all in on a city wide BRT network. The precedent of fast and successful implantation has been proven both in the RapidTO lanes on Kingston Road and the RT replacement bus lanes.

 

[Steamed-apple-juice]

What makes you say that the EELRT won't happen

I agree with what jmi22 said. The Eglinton East (EELRT) is a good project, but when you look at the cost-benefit of what the project will deliver, you will recognize it will bring localized benefits rather than regional building/ connectivity.

The city will prioritize the Waterfront East Streetcar route, the Eglinton Crosstown extension to Pearson Airport, and likely bring rapid transit to Jane or Dufferin Street before considering funding the EELRT. The project is also in a precarious position, if the EELRT advances too far in the design phase, it will be harder for the plans to change down the road for a subway extension of Line 4. Metrolinx is currently investigating extending the line beyond McCowan & Sheppard all the way to Sheppard & Morningside. If too much focus and resources are given to design and develop the EELRT the less likely a subway extension would be - and I do think a subway would be best for Scarborough.

If city council was really interested in improving the lives of Scarborough residents, they would stop burning money chasing their dream of turning Neilson Road into Queen Street, and go all in on a city wide BRT network.

The city doesn't seem as if they truly care about improving transit access for east Scarborough. This LRT to me seems more like a development tool, rather than a transportation tool - there aren't capacity constraints with the current bus, and an LRT ride from Malvern Town Centre to McCowan & Sheppard or Scarborough Centre wouldn't be significantly faster on an LRT compared to a bus. The Durham-Scarborough BRT will soon provide a rapid transit connection between UTSC and Scarborough Centre.

 

[Thaboss]

I agree with what jmi22 said. The Eglinton East (EELRT) is a good project, but when you look at the cost-benefit of what the project will deliver, you will recognize it will bring localized benefits rather than regional building/ connectivity.

The city will prioritize the Waterfront East Streetcar route, the Eglinton Crosstown extension to Pearson Airport, and likely bring rapid transit to Jane or Dufferin Street before considering funding the EELRT. The project is also in a precarious position, if the EELRT advances too far in the design phase, it will be harder for the plans to change down the road for a subway extension of Line 4. Metrolinx is currently investigating extending the line beyond McCowan & Sheppard all the way to Sheppard & Morningside. If too much focus and resources are given to design and develop the EELRT the less likely a subway extension would be - and I do think a subway would be best for Scarborough.



The city doesn't seem as if they truly care about improving transit access for east Scarborough. This LRT to me seems more like a development tool, rather than a transportation tool - there aren't capacity constraints with the current bus, and an LRT ride from Malvern Town Centre to McCowan & Sheppard or Scarborough Centre wouldn't be significantly faster on an LRT compared to a bus. The Durham-Scarborough BRT will soon provide a rapid transit connection between UTSC and Scarborough Centre.

Hmm you know what from this perspective i can totally see what everyone is saying. If you extend the subway to sheppard and morningside to the east and to the west extend it to finch LRT, and extend finch LRT to the airport, you have a very compelling uptown? Rappid Transit connection in toronto with a limited need for the LRT while revitalizing what has been a underutilized subway stub.

Since a larger percentage of toronto would then have a decent connection to the dt core, I think a real conversation of congestion charge could then commence. Pipe dream I know.

Do you know where I can read about the proposed subway extension?

 

[Northern Light]

Appealed to OLT

Case Information

First CMC is Sept 9th, 2025.

@Paclo