thommyjo
Senior Member
Saying a lot of things with confidence without sources man. 2023 - 76,500 weekday. 2018 - 113,000 weekday. So just a casual 30% drop…
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IanO
Superstar
Odd though, for the head of ETS continues to say that they are 'back to normal'.
BrettB
Active Member
Bus service certainly is back to normal, according to the most recent Branch Highlight Report - although for the life of me, I don't understand why they don't also publish LRT data
TAS
Senior Member
Yes, it was bus service that was back to normal as of Jan 2023.
As an FYI, Edmonton's best year for ETS ridership (lrt + bus) was 2014, the only year we surpassed 89 million riders. By 2019, ridership was down 2.5 million despite expanded lrt and a population increase.
Coincidentally, Edmonton continued to really sprawl during those years and many kms of roads were added and new neighbourhoods outside the Henday built out.
As an FYI, Edmonton's best year for ETS ridership (lrt + bus) was 2014, the only year we surpassed 89 million riders. By 2019, ridership was down 2.5 million despite expanded lrt and a population increase.
Coincidentally, Edmonton continued to really sprawl during those years and many kms of roads were added and new neighbourhoods outside the Henday built out.
bodsbods9090
Senior Member
Huh???
Kosy123
Senior Member
If anything I'm curious to see the numbers for 2023 Sep-Nov. 2022 Sep-Nov saw a recovery, especially as COVID was deemed not a thing anymore, but there was still some apprehension and weird work scheduling with GoA employees over the 3 day in, 2 day out hybrid model. I'd still argue that 70% ridership from pre-COVID is still substantial numbers, especially as other transit jurisdictions haven't fully recovered yet.
thommyjo
Senior Member
Yeah, 70% isn’t bad at all comparatively. But I think in our context, we know that ours is being hurt by safety more than just office WFH jobs. Whereas Toronto has clearly seen 300k less workers downtown these days, which is heavily tied to offices and WFH. So that’s why their subways and trains have dropped in use. Ours is in the low tens of thousands for office job impacts.
Greenspace
Senior Member
Back to 2019 levels. We’re still way off pre-2014 recession levels and will take a decade to get back to that.
IanO
Superstar
Basically losing the transit battle amid one of the fastest growing cities in the country with significant new investments into LRT.
The SE, W and SLRT expansions should provide much better options for folks, IF they actually have to head to the core AND we make it a much safer system.
The SE, W and SLRT expansions should provide much better options for folks, IF they actually have to head to the core AND we make it a much safer system.
BASE
Active Member
Sadly I think when the SE Valley line opens ridership is going to be very anemic. Those that utilize the Bus for similar routes will make the shift but with the state of safety the number of folks shifting from personal vehicle to transit will be a very small.
IanO
Superstar
LRT is (typically) a more attractive option for many than the bus.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I think the train helps a lot for occasional users as well. A bus for a one of concert or sports game isn’t the same experience as the train for a one off. So I think we’ll see good usage for that.
But ridership I think isn’t the best metric for Edmonton right now. I think we need to go after arc card adoption. Once people have them, their likelihood of use is a lot higher. That’s the strategy ride sharing and food delivery companies were built on. 60% of the battle was getting the app downloaded on your phone.
So few people even think about ever using transit. Once they have an arc card, it at least becomes an option.
But ridership I think isn’t the best metric for Edmonton right now. I think we need to go after arc card adoption. Once people have them, their likelihood of use is a lot higher. That’s the strategy ride sharing and food delivery companies were built on. 60% of the battle was getting the app downloaded on your phone.
So few people even think about ever using transit. Once they have an arc card, it at least becomes an option.
ChazYEG
Senior Member
I wish we actually had gone fully digital and added an app that you could tap on your phone/smartwatch, or add it to your digital wallet, as well as do it with credit/debit tapping. I have an ARC card, but tbh, if I didn't leave by the LRT and used it somewhat frequently, I wouldn't really have it in my wallet (it's a small card holder with slots for 6 cards... I would usually have ID, 2 debit, 2 credit cards and my Costco card, if not for the fact that I sue the LRT more than Costco).
As an infrequent user (which I will soon become, since I'm moving to Summerside, temporarily) I'd probably have to remember to load the card, and grab it, every time I decide to use it. Chances are that someone less transit inclined will always forget, and end up driving or taking Ubers, rather than transit. If we had the option to use debit/credit or an app, that would never be an issue.
TravellingChris
Active Member
Exactly. The Valley Line is basically going to be an extremely expensive replacement bus between Mill Woods and downtown. You'll convert existing bus riders to the line (obviously) but drivers won't be convinced, especially given that the travel times won't be much better than a bus. But I think it will be more a reflection of the poor design of the line rather than safety issues.
Barnaby
Senior Member
I am not betting on ridership being low. I'm visiting someone that moved to Vancouver who hasn't taken a bus once, but takes the SkyTrain daily. I took the bus once yesterday, but I'll stick to the train or walk/bike now.
I think trains have more potential riders than busses due to preferences, from classism, comfort, predictability, frequency, etc.
One thing I noticed about the SkyTrain, is that it doesn't offer more coverage than Edmonton's system will in 2027, but it goes to every place that I'd ever want to go. If something isn't along the SkyTrain, or within walking distance, I'm probably not going there. Also, the SkyTrain is surprisingly slow. I prefer Edmonton's subway portion, it feels more New York.
The big ridership boost is absolutely going to be the West line. Opening up West Ed to young people along the entire line.
But do not underestimate young people's hatred for driving.
I think trains have more potential riders than busses due to preferences, from classism, comfort, predictability, frequency, etc.
One thing I noticed about the SkyTrain, is that it doesn't offer more coverage than Edmonton's system will in 2027, but it goes to every place that I'd ever want to go. If something isn't along the SkyTrain, or within walking distance, I'm probably not going there. Also, the SkyTrain is surprisingly slow. I prefer Edmonton's subway portion, it feels more New York.
The big ridership boost is absolutely going to be the West line. Opening up West Ed to young people along the entire line.
But do not underestimate young people's hatred for driving.