[innsertnamehere]

Ok.....I'm not going to get into the weeds on all the speculation...........but I will point out that a very maxxed out 6% grade............to come from a depth at least 35M below the West Don River would entail a 1.2km long ramp.

Just sayin.

The beautiful thing about minimal accesses and interchanges is that you have a huge distance to do those ramps. You wouldn't need to be close to the surface in the east until the 404, which is 6.5km away.. And to the west, the 400, which actually sites 7 metres below the west don.. 9.5km away.

 

[MidtownKW]

something like this..

View attachment 671827

I'm gonna be allowed to walk in it? In that case, I'm on board after all.

 

[Rainforest]

Let's see what the engineering shows. But from what I've seen or heard so far, this projects looks like a horizontal Tower of Babel.

Some tunneled lanes added to deal with strategic pinch points, yes. But an auto tunnel across the whole GTA - feels kind of insane.

 

[afransen]

A 6-lane highway with an 80km/h limit and limited to no interchanges would offer a surprisingly huge vehicle capacity - likely supporting around 150,000 AADT. That would be a fairly substantial addition to east-west capacity. If they squeezed in 8-lanes, you could probably push 200-250,000 daily vehicles through it. The super express nature of it would also make it not really serve local commuting patterns, instead functioning more as a regional connector for traffic trying to go across the GTA, not to it. Of course with that traffic moved off the existing 401, it would leave more capacity on the existing 401 for those commuters..

If it interchanges with other regional highways (427, 400, 404), it will merely get backed up from the congestion there.

 

[Bordercollie]

They would be better off building the Finch ALRT using the hydro corridor. This would connect people east to west with fast public transit. You need to get people out of cars. Building more lanes won't help.

Look at those 16 lanes they built from Milton to Mississauga. They are filled to the brim 12 hours a day and they just opened it.

What are we going to do in ten years if they don't start building another 16 lanes now?

 

[micheal_can]

They would be better off building the Finch ALRT using the hydro corridor. This would connect people east to west with fast public transit. You need to get people out of cars. Building more lanes won't help.

Look at those 16 lanes they built from Milton to Mississauga. They are filled to the brim 12 hours a day and they just opened it.

What are we going to do in ten years if they don't start building another 16 lanes now?

Another tunnel?

Seriously, it is time to invest in transit like never before. That does include things like GO RER, ALTO/HSR west, and subways, subways, subways. That is about the only way that the area can continue to keep moving. Adding lanes has yet to actually make traffic better.

 

[crs1026]

What are we going to do in ten years if they don't start building another 16 lanes now?

The response would be, what are we going to do in ten years if we do build the 401 tunnel and it absorbs every bit of funding that we have available for road/tunnel construction.... leaving gridlock on all the other routes?

While the 401 is a mess, our problem is that roads are clogged all over, and while relieving the 401 might help, the gridlock problem is far more widespread.

The fact that Ford refuses to acknowledge is that ever-denser cities where everyone tries to get around by car are never going to work. The answer is not to eliminate cars, but the answer has to be some form of constraint that prevents everyone from getting in their car at the same time.... and especially to add alternatives that reduce demand for auto use.

There is a finite limit to the number of cars that can use the road network at any point in time....we need to admit this and work to that number, not pretend that we can keep ahead of surging demand.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

The response would be, what are we going to do in ten years if we do build the 401 tunnel and it absorbs every bit of funding that we have available for road/tunnel construction.... leaving gridlock on all the other routes?

While the 401 is a mess, our problem is that roads are clogged all over, and while relieving the 401 might help, the gridlock problem is far more widespread.

The fact that Ford refuses to acknowledge is that ever-denser cities where everyone tries to get around by car are never going to work. The answer is not to eliminate cars, but the answer has to be some form of constraint that prevents everyone from getting in their car at the same time.... and especially to add alternatives that reduce demand for auto use.

There is a finite limit to the number of cars that can use the road network at any point in time....we need to admit this and work to that number, not pretend that we can keep ahead of surging demand.

- Paul

With the recent 5 Day a week office mandates from all major banks and Rogers, traffic is not going to get any better.

Think of the hundreds of thousands of people getting to work for 9am and finishing at 5pm.

Some kind of tax incentive or law requiring a hybrid work space needs to be put into place.

The continuous building of more highway lanes is not stable.

 

[Northern Light]

The beautiful thing about minimal accesses and interchanges is that you have a huge distance to do those ramps. You wouldn't need to be close to the surface in the east until the 404, which is 6.5km away.. And to the west, the 400, which actually sites 7 metres below the west don.. 9.5km away.

Put aside the fact I think you are grossly underestimating the challenges, while inflating the benefits of this absurd proposal.............

I would like you to seriously explain to us all.......where is the road capacity coming from that will feed this tunnel, and take the exit traffic from it?

If you imagine this were entirely from traffic that neither originates, nor terminates in the GTA,, then routing it through the GTA seems silly.

But if you're serving logistics (the movement of goods) that need to go to/from factories, warehouses, distribution centres etc.; or residents/workers who need to begin at their home, and end at their place of work and vice versa.......... then this traffic you've created would need vast new levels of capacity on the roads that connect to same.

There is no plan for such capacity, there is no money to deliver it, and it would be politically unpalatable to try. (Tolls, taxes, mass expropriation etc)

 

[Northern Light]

With the recent 5 Day a week office mandates from all major banks and Rogers, traffic is not going to get any better.

Think of the hundreds of thousands of people getting to work for 9am and finishing at 5pm.

Yes.

Some kind of tax incentive or law requiring a hybrid work space needs to be put into place.

No, too much micro management and too costly.

But there's the gist of an idea in there.

Bringing paid vacation in Ontario up to global norms (minimum 4 weeks) and shortening the work week (Ontario is technically 44 hours, so start by going to 40) will draw down some pressure on the commuter front.

The continuous building of more highway lanes is not stable.

Correct. But transit is the better solution. We already know what to do, but we need to pull the money from the 413, and the Bradford Bypass, and not waste any on this tunnel, as well as toll every freeway, and charge for parking at GO Stations.

Once we do that.......we have all the money we need to deliver all the transit projects we already know about.......... Ontario Line North, 2-way Milton, GO Electrification, Sheppard Subway, etc.

 

[micheal_can]

The response would be, what are we going to do in ten years if we do build the 401 tunnel and it absorbs every bit of funding that we have available for road/tunnel construction.... leaving gridlock on all the other routes?

While the 401 is a mess, our problem is that roads are clogged all over, and while relieving the 401 might help, the gridlock problem is far more widespread.

The fact that Ford refuses to acknowledge is that ever-denser cities where everyone tries to get around by car are never going to work. The answer is not to eliminate cars, but the answer has to be some form of constraint that prevents everyone from getting in their car at the same time.... and especially to add alternatives that reduce demand for auto use.

There is a finite limit to the number of cars that can use the road network at any point in time....we need to admit this and work to that number, not pretend that we can keep ahead of surging demand.

- Paul

... work from home
...stardust shifts
...improved transit
...turn office buildings into housing
......

During the lock down, there was zero congestion. Gas was also about half the price.
We know how to fix this issue. A lock down ain't it. Neither is a 1950s fantasy tunnel.

 

[crs1026]

"Sorry, the subway is crowded because we assumed more people will work from home" is not a good place to reach.
We should scale transit on an assumption that most people will need to be at their workplace most of the time.
A margin of overdelivery on transit is not a bad thing.

- Paul

 

[ownthesky]

Has anyone noticed that Brian Lilley from the Toronto Sun has been out manufacturing consent for Ford's tunnel for the last couple days? The guy has been screeching about deficits and fiscal restraint for the last decade

 

[evandyk]

I was going to say he's just helping out his girlfriend, but she seems to no longer be Dougie's press secretary. She's moved on to shilling for Labatt.

 

[Haljackey]

My riding isn't blue. So,we did not vote him in. Those in blue ridings, especially those in blue ridings that vote blue voted him in.

We, the people of Toronto, have not given him three majorities, despite his biggest want seeming to be Mayor of Toronto.

Toronto should be its own special administrative district separate from Ontario. It shouldn't be possible for a Premier voted in by rural and suburban voters to circumvent everything in the city on a whim. The city is too large for the rest of the province politically.

So what? All of London went NDP all 3 times he got elected too. It does not matter how your riding went or how your city swung. Ontario collectively elected the PCs with 3 majorities. That's just what happened.

Heck while the topic of Toronto becoming it's own province is outside the scope of this thread, you guys had a chance to prevent Douggie from becoming premier if you made him mayor

I just see this project as a distraction. Nothing wrong with having vision, you can argue many politicians these days lack vision. Maybe that's why people like Douggie so much?