[lenaitch]

Yes but I don’t need to lug skis or a snowboard onto a train and then catch a shuttle. I could in theory walk the last bit on a nice summer day to Niagara Falls.

And people clearly do not figure out the last mile all the time. It’s why we have huge parking structures at go stations. The easiest plan to figure it out was to drive the car to the station to begin with. In this case there won’t be a car.

Will some people figure it out. Sure. But the 401 and 400 series highways are packed with cars for a reason. People don’t want to deal with the last mile.

If you want to use public money to drop off tourists right at the base of a privately-owned, for-profit hill (to the detriment of the other hills in the area apparently), be prepared to spend serious coin to greenfield it because the old ROW through Collingwood is built over. It's the same if people aren't willing to lug their cabanas and coolers to Wasaga (which beach area? 1? 6? 8?).

This Collingwood discussion has gone on before. It is probably easier for MX to offer a seasonal, tourist-oriented service to Niagara Falls since they don't have to build much if any infrastructure. I remain unconvinced that a similar type service, or even some level of commuter service, is supported to install a complete new line.

 

[WB62]

Excuse me for my lack of knowledge but wasn't the lack of express stopping patterns one of the reasons why the London GO took so long, on top of the track speeds? So would not speeding them up by making them limited stop (as you've mentioned for the "frequent VIA services") make them feasible?

The London pilot ran as an express service, bypassing many inner stations on the Kitchener Line:

 

[sixrings]

If you want to use public money to drop off tourists right at the base of a privately-owned, for-profit hill (to the detriment of the other hills in the area apparently), be prepared to spend serious coin to greenfield it because the old ROW through Collingwood is built over. It's the same if people aren't willing to lug their cabanas and coolers to Wasaga (which beach area? 1? 6? 8?).

This Collingwood discussion has gone on before. It is probably easier for MX to offer a seasonal, tourist-oriented service to Niagara Falls since they don't have to build much if any infrastructure. I remain unconvinced that a similar type service, or even some level of commuter service, is supported to install a complete new line.

I’m good with not doing that nor was I suggesting that. I simply was suggesting the collingwood in itself is not a tourist destination the way Niagara Falls is.

 

[innsertnamehere]

To be clear, Collingwood should be built as spartan as it can. A surburban platform on the edge of Collingwood, and just a single track the entire way from Barrie. Not electrified, etc - running maybe 2-3 peak hour services into Toronto with enhanced friday-sunday services for tourism.

The tracks were just ripped up a few years ago, the corridor shouldn't be in terrible shape. it would need relaying of about ~35km of new track, but this should be relatively inexpensive as it would just be a single track with basic level crossings and little premium in terms of things like noise barriers, new bridge structures, etc.

 

[lenaitch]

To be clear, Collingwood should be built as spartan as it can. A surburban platform on the edge of Collingwood, and just a single track the entire way from Barrie. Not electrified, etc - running maybe 2-3 peak hour services into Toronto with enhanced friday-sunday services for tourism.

The tracks were just ripped up a few years ago, the corridor shouldn't be in terrible shape. it would need relaying of about ~35km of new track, but this should be relatively inexpensive as it would just be a single track with basic level crossings and little premium in terms of things like noise barriers, new bridge structures, etc.

Once they electrify the line to Barrie they would pretty much have to continue it on the C'Wood unless some kind of dual-fuel power or a separate shuttle is envisioned.

Actually, I think a lot of the infrastructure is still intact - not of much use but still intact. A lot of the rail has only been lifted at some road crossings.

 

[smallspy]

Excuse me for my lack of knowledge but wasn't the lack of express stopping patterns one of the reasons why the London GO took so long, on top of the track speeds? So would not speeding them up by making them limited stop (as you've mentioned for the "frequent VIA services") make them feasible?

An express service would have negated the whole point of the London service - to serve multiple markets on that stretch (London to Kitchener, Stratford to Kitchener, Kitchener to Brampton, etc.).

Dan

 

[Northern Light]

Once they electrify the line to Barrie they would pretty much have to continue it on the C'Wood unless some kind of dual-fuel power or a separate shuttle is envisioned.

Actually, I think a lot of the infrastructure is still intact - not of much use but still intact. A lot of the rail has only been lifted at some road crossings.

Diesels will be able to run under the catenary on all lines.

So you could do (when we get there, a very long time from now) Collingwood bound trains as diesels. The rest as electric, if so desired.

But that's a problem for the future, not today.

 

[Metroscapes]

The London pilot ran as an express service, bypassing many inner stations on the Kitchener Line:View attachment 632795

Just throwing out the cautionary note (for all) that service to London should not be given a Toronto frame. A ton of traffic on VIA trains was students and others between London and K-W/Kitchener.

 

[sixrings]

Where’s that Stratford go station. Isn’t Stratford a tourism area.

 

[rdaner]

As I used to live in Stratford I can sort of answer this: Stratty is a bit of a different town than others on this line due to, as you said, being a tourist spot. Though the base population is ~30,000 it balloons to twice that in the Festival season. In addition a lot of residents work in KW or London and many used the train eastbound. There might be an argument for dedicated commuter rail from Stratford into Kitchener GO several times a day.

 

[sixrings]

As I used to live in Stratford I can sort of answer this: Stratty is a bit of a different town than others on this line due to, as you said, being a tourist spot. Though the base population is ~30,000 it balloons to twice that in the Festival season. In addition a lot of residents work in KW or London and many used the train eastbound. There might be an argument for dedicated commuter rail from Stratford into Kitchener GO several times a day.

Doesn’t GO just go to Niagara during the tourist season? Could Stratford not get GO between May-Oct

 

[rdaner]

^Yes!

 

[Northern Light]

Doesn’t GO just go to Niagara during the tourist season?

No, year round 3x per day.

PS, I know you know this........ which is why I label you contrarian, and posting just to get a reaction, when you choose to post things that you know aren't true. I'm not sure what other purpose such posting could serve.

Could Stratford not get GO between May-Oct

Sure, though we've discussed this issue before.

There are challenges, for a tourism/theatre based service for Stratford, including desired times of day/travel time (shows tend to be in the evening); and last mile connections to the theatres.

Its not that they can't be overcome, but its certainly not as simple as 1 or 2x daily services by GO.

Also, VIA probably better fits the potential theatre-goer experience for what is a fairly lengthy trip, if measured from Toronto.

 

[crs1026]

The Liberal platform is disappointing in that it may be aspirational but gives no confidence that anyone has considered priorities, costs, or the necessary enabling work.
In the case of Stratford-London the key factors that have to be acknowledged are
A) the tracks are at life end and will have to be replaced in toto - even Dofo gave a price figure as a commitment, albeit reneged on - do the Liberals think it can be reinstituted for less?
B) While solvable, there is a question of how much GO, VIA etc can squeeze out of the line, even assuming the completion of upgrades to the Halton - which are committed but not necessarily funded unless a new government confirms.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

No, year round 3x per day.

PS, I know you know this........ which is why I label you contrarian, and posting just to get a reaction, when you choose to post things that you know aren't true. I'm not sure what other purpose such posting could serve.



Sure, though we've discussed this issue before.

There are challenges, for a tourism/theatre based service for Stratford, including desired times of day/travel time (shows tend to be in the evening); and last mile connections to the theatres.

Its not that they can't be overcome, but its certainly not as simply as 1 or 2x daily services by GO.

Also, VIA probably better fits the potential theatre-goer experience for what is a fairly lengthy trip, if measured from Toronto.

I did not google and did not know about Niagara being year round. I thought it was just the summer months.

At least the last mile problem from the Stratford station to the theatre is literally a mile. It is a few if not more miles to blue mountain or the other hills from collingwood. Again I’m not googling but I know I can walk from Stratford station to a theatre but I cannot walk from collingwood to blue mountain.

And wouldn’t via provide a better experience for collingwood as well. It seems like via which btw I was on again yesterday is almost exclusively the better experience it cost wasn’t a factor and you’re going from a major destination to another major destination.